Marketing Tips for Introverts – with Marcia Yudkin

November 18, 2022

Marcia Yudkin shares insights on myths about introverts and marketing and tips for how to market in your own way as an introvert.

Welcome to Episode 21 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Marketing Tips for Introverts. I’m joined by Marcia Yudkin, author and specialist in the area of introverts and marketing, based on many years’ experience as a marketing coach and consultant.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Myths about introverts
Ways of being bold as an introvert
Myths about introverts and marketing
Push vs pull marketing – and what works best for introverts
Authentic marketing for introverts
Content marketing and pull marketing – what’s the difference
Being clear in communicating who you are and how you work
Substack as an option for free and paid offerings and writing
Being inclusive of introverts in marketing
What we can learn from introverted characters in fiction and real life

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 21 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 18 November as I record this.

I’m excited to have Marcia Yudkin join us for the podcast today.

For more than 10 years, Marcia Yudkin has stood up and defended introverts as worthy of respect and understanding. This developed out of her work as a marketing coach and consultant. She’s the author of 17 books and too many ebooks, online courses and so on to count. Her current focus is a Substack newsletter called Introvert UpThink, which critiques society’s misunderstandings and disparagements of introverts. She lives in the woods of Western Massachusetts, where she walks or runs five miles every day in the company of chipmunks, beaver, deer, porcupines and occasionally bears.

I was so excited when Marcia and I connected to be able to explore more about the area of marketing for introverts and to share these insights with you. Bringing an incredibly rich background as marketing consultant, coach and author together with personal and professional experience on marketing as an introvert, it was fabulous to dive deep into this topic. We explore myths around both introversion and marketing as an introvert with so many tips for helping you to share more about you and your work with the world if you are an introvert.

I had so many personal aha moments in this conversation. There are many powerful examples that illustrate the tips provided. It is a fantastic reminder to be ourselves in how we market including as introverts and how this can be a successful path. Take some time too to learn about Marcia’s work and books and connect with her via her fabulous Substack newsletter, Introvert UpThink. Plus Marcia has many valuable books and resources on this topic as well. Links in the show notes as ever.

So let’s head into the interview with Marcia.

Transcript of interview with Marcia Yudkin

Terri Connellan: Hello Marcia, and welcome to the Create Your Story podcast. It’s so great to connect with you and to chat about introversion from many perspectives today, including marketing and media.

Marcia Yudkin: Hi Terri. Thanks for having me.

Terri Connellan: So to kick us off, Marcia, can you provide a brief overview about your background, how you got to be, where you are today, and the work that you do?

Marcia Yudkin: Sure. As a kid, I was a bookworm. I loved words, and I was very much a classic introvert. My mother wished that I had more friends, and I found out recently that in this, she was just like, Ayn Rand’s mother who was always bugging her. Can’t you find some more friends? But I turned out fine.

In school. I studied philosophy in college, in graduate school. I taught philosophy for a while, quit academic life. I became a freelancer, because remember I said I had always loved words and so I thought, okay, writing is the next thing for me. And that morphed into becoming an expert in publicity and that developed into becoming an expert in marketing, which also used my love of words. And at some point I discovered that I’m an introvert. I think this was in the late two thousands, like 2008, something like that, and I started making more and more connections between things I saw in myself, things I saw in my clients, things I saw in my past, and reading that I was doing about what an introvert was.

And now I’m transitioning from marketing to concentrate on a newsletter that I started called Introvert UpThink, which looks at the prejudices against introverts in society and gives people resources for thinking positively about themselves as introverts.

Terri Connellan: Fabulous. And I love how your love of words is just woven through everything that you’ve talked about in different ways.

Marcia Yudkin: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Terri Connellan: It’s just fantastic. And, love the focus that you have through that weave of your life, bringing together that love of words, marketing and understanding about your own introversion and then helping others with theirs in areas of your strengths. So that’s really fabulous. So you’ve been working in that area now for more than 10 years in the area of marketing for introverts. Can you tell us a bit more about why you chose to focus there and how you help people?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, one thing I discovered when I was looking around and thinking about. What I was doing on a daily basis is I noticed that about 75% of my own clients were introverts, and I think that was because they saw in me a reflection of themselves and they wanted to work with somebody they could admire and who was like themselves and therefore was not going to push them to do things that did not come naturally to them.

So in addition to making those kind of observations, I also interviewed people who I saw as introverts, as successful introverts, especially in the marketing field and also in the writing field. And I wanted to find out, okay, what were their strategies for becoming successful as an introvert, not making a lot of compromises with their own personality.

Interestingly, some of these people weren’t themselves sure that they were introverts, even though I was sure that they were. And, I also analyzed things that I saw commonalities in my introverted clients. One of the things I noticed was that, Initially they were very set against marketing. There was something that didn’t sit right with them and I think it was because they were being told they had to do it in a way that didn’t fit their personality.

And then once I showed them that they could think about marketing in a different way, then it made a big transformation. In their ability to bring in clients. So that was gratifying, watching that happen with them. I’m not coaching clients anymore, but I’m still writing about things that I’ve learned, throughout my life and in working with clients.

Terri Connellan: Fabulous. And, it’s interesting what you say about introverts having a set against marketing and that idea of there’s a particular type of way that marketing should be done that might not be in line with introvert preferences.

Marcia Yudkin: I was noticing that, well, as a marketing expert myself, I wanted to see what my colleagues were saying, and a lot of them were saying really nonsensical things or things that would be downright harmful to introverts. Like, just get over yourself, don’t be such a wimp. Go out there and be aggressive and you didn’t have to do that, and we’ll get to that. What’s the alternative to that? But, I just noticed that there was so much in the marketing guru space that was only applicable to extraverts, really. And in order to follow that advice, you would have to be an extravert or skilled at pretending you were an extravert. And as you know, that’s really a strain and that’s a drain on energy.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. It’s like we have our natural preferences and when someone’s trying to push us into what is not natural. The natural reaction to that is to just move away from it, as you’ve said, to avoid or just to step away from that space altogether.

And I think as you’ve highlighted from what you’ve learned and what you’ve experienced for introverts often, and it’s part of why I called my business Quiet Writing, you have to find another way to share who you are and what you do that may go against the grain a bit or may involve new practices that will go through as we chat.

So, let’s talk about introverts and myths about introverts generally. So what are the most common myths that you see and how do they impact people with introverted preferences?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, I’ll just talk about two of the myths. There are a lot of them, but the first one is that introversion is a weakness, a personality weakness that you can get over, that you can overcome, and you can learn to be like all the extroverts and you can learn to get business the way that they get business.

And to some extent that’s true. You can, you can try those things, You can force yourself to do those things, but it’s exhausting. So my perspective is always to try to figure out a way to work with your natural preferences rather than against them. So introversion is not a weakness and it’s not something you can get over. If you were an introvert as a kid, you might learn to adapt in certain ways, but you’ll most likely still be an introvert when you’re grown up.

And the second myth is that introverts are timid and retiring. And from the way I look at it, we just have a different way of being bold. So, an amusing example of this is I have an extroverted friend. And, she does things that I would never do and I do things that she would never do and we surprise each other. So one of those surprises was, maybe 25 years ago, a big way that I kept my business going was by sending out postcards and they would be these hot pink postcards with announcements of my upcoming classes and special coaching programs.

And, my friend Shifra said to me, I could never send out postcards like that. I said, What do you mean? What do you mean you couldn’t send out postcards? She said, I don’t know. It’s so out there and to her that that was something that she couldn’t see herself doing, and to me was totally natural, totally easy and, you know, I wrote the postcards and I even put the stamps on them and everything. But for me to go up to strangers and start a conversation, that’s much more difficult. And for her, that was the most natural thing in the world. So, of course, If I were giving advice to her about how to market herself, I would set her up all these different ways she could have those conversations, and for me, that’s not what’s the best way.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And there are two really key myths about introversion, aren’t they that just pop up and are persistent. Even though we’ve had a lot of books and focus on introversion as a strength, I think it’s still something that we need to continually be working on personally and as a society. Introversion is not a personality weakness, as you said, you can overcome. It’s not something you can get over. And I loved your point too about the fact that you can force yourself to do things in a different way, but it’s the impact on people who are introverted, that it is exhausting. Cause again, you’re working against your natural preference, everything is harder.

Marcia Yudkin: Not only do we still hear this idea that introversion is a weakness, we sometimes hear it that it’s a mental illness. And, I’m researching this for an upcoming article about different ways in which people who should know better, identify certain aspects of being an introvert as being some kind of abnormal tendency and downright mental illness. But I still see this a lot when I read general interest things.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s out there on the public domain still. And, I loved your example too, of the different ways of being bold. That was great because, it’s true, there are things that might be again, quite natural for us that we do that don’t feel bold at all. But it’s interesting, there’s lots of ways introverts can be bold, be quite rebellious at times, be quite different. Exactly. Yeah. And, it’s just natural for us.

Marcia Yudkin: I’m very bold in writing, so I’ve had a lot of success writing letters to perfect strangers where I’m proposing something and I know how to use words to get attention. That’s one of my strengths. And I’ve said things that some other people wouldn’t say or that they wouldn’t know how to get attention.

So I’ve made a lot of connections with editors, especially earlier in my career when I was a freelance writer, I was able to contact these national magazines. And just in half a page, this was before email, just in half a page of a letter, get their attention and have them call me and say, Let’s talk. Come to New York and meet with me. I want you to write for us.

Terri Connellan: That’s a great strength and a great skill and my learning in this space is that it is taking the time to become more self-aware and educated. That’s why I use that term self leadership, like understanding yourself and what your strengths are so you can as you’ve shown through that beautiful example, deploy them effectively to meet your needs and to share what you have to share with the world.

So, we’ve talked about some of the myths around introverts generally. What specific myths do you see around introverts and marketing, and what’s their impact?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, we talked a bit about the idea that you need to be aggressive, that you need to get yourself out there. Another idea is that you need to interrupt people and pressure them. And introverts absolutely hate that. That’s like one of the things we most hate because we hate being pressured. We hate being interrupted. And what I tell introverts is that instead of being pushy, you use attraction. So you can pull people to you instead of pushing them toward you.

And there’s a whole genre of marketing that I call pull marketing, which is that you put things out there in the world and the right people, the people who you want to be attracted to you and who you want to work with, will find it and come to you. And that’s a very natural, very comfortable process for introverts. There’s nothing pushy whatsoever about it. It’s very authentic. It’s very natural, and it’s very effective.

Terri Connellan: And is that the same as content marketing?

Marcia Yudkin: I guess you could say content marketing. I like talking about it in terms of push and pull because I think that makes it very clear what the advantage is for introverts.

Terri Connellan: Mm. Yeah. I love that. I do. And it’s that idea of putting ideas, putting content, putting information, branding out there that will help people find you, be drawn to you, as you say. And it’s that natural attraction I guess that brings people to you and to the ideas that you share. And so what about discoverability in that space? Cause a lot of time, I think a lot of introverts can feel they’re putting information out there, but it doesn’t get read or it doesn’t get seen. So how could introverts be seen?

Marcia Yudkin: There’s some strategy there that you have to think through. So you have to think about first, who do you want to be speaking with, and you find out where they hang out, what do they read, what do they listen to, what do they watch? And you need to figure out how to get in front of the media that they’re already using. So, maybe that’s an online forum that your ideal clients exchange ideas on, and you can go there and depending on the rules of the forum. You find out, okay, what can I do to participate and become known, and then have those people want to find out more about me and so on.

Terri Connellan: Great. No, that’s really, an excellent idea because it’s probably easy for introverts to just think, I’ll put this information out and people will come and it’s not always the case. So, I think the sort of area that you’re working in to really articulate what we can do is just so powerful.

Marcia Yudkin: Let me say one more thing. The reason I hesitated about when you asked about content marketing is that there are other ways of attracting people that don’t have to do with creating content. So, for example, one of the people I worked with, was a Reiki practitioner, alternative medicine practitioner.

And she said she felt really alienated from marketing, from the whole idea of marketing because, to her, it had to do with communicating with these faceless masses of people that she couldn’t relate to at all. However, her strength was, she told me that when she got face to face with someone and was talking with them in a conversational way, that she was able to explain to them in a very persuasive, very compelling way what reiki was.

And what it could do for them in a natural conversation. So we decided that her marketing strategy would be to figure out ways in which she could have those conversations. So that’s not content marketing, but it still is pull marketing because you’re not being pushy. So she would, attend health expos for example. She would offer free sessions at places where people were already going. So she would make a deal with a yoga studio or a health club to offer free sessions there at a certain time and place. And that really, really helped her build her practice.

Terri Connellan: Mm, thank you. I really appreciate that distinction and additional comments about that idea between content marketing and pull marketing. I can see what you’re saying because, I think, content marketing perhaps can seem a little bit passive. And I guess what you are describing there too is that actively identifying how you might do things, including in a face to face way. So it’s not necessarily all putting content out there, it might be putting yourself out there in a different way.

Marcia Yudkin: Right. And I’ll give you an example of how this stuff works. So, years ago I gave a class on writing websites basically. And I had 12 people in the class and my idea was that everybody in the class would use what they were learning to create their own websites. But what happened was that, and this was totally not my intention, some of the people in the class realized that this wasn’t something that they wanted to do themselves. And they took what they were learning from me to ask me to do it for them, and that was a very natural outcome of something that I was already doing.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s a really great example and it’s often working through areas that you’re working on and finding the best way for you. A lot of, it’s about finding a fit for a personality, cause there’s introverts, but there’s different types of introverts as well. So everybody needs to find, what works for them.

So what insights, practices and tools can help introverts with marketing themselves, their work and their business in the world?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, the first thing I would say is that You need to realize that you’re fine the way you are. And, 1 sentence I came across not too long ago was, No one wants to do business with a wallflower. You see how insulting that is to introverts, but also it’s just not true. Because what I saw again and again was that everybody’s not the same. So everybody doesn’t want to do business with dynamic, talkative, chatty people. There are many people who prefer to work with us quieter, less flashy, less pushy people.

And, so for example, in one of my surveys, I asked the introverts in the survey, if they found out that there was a local financial planner who was nationally famous, would they want to work with that person because they were nationally famous?

And one guy said, it was very surprising, he said, No, I definitely would not, because first of all, I would think that they would be too busy to give me any attention. And secondly, I don’t want somebody who’s spending half their energy trying to be famous and deal with that. I want somebody who’s just going to be doing client service.

And this goes against a lot of the advice that marketing experts are giving to people. You know, you have to build this big reputation. Well, not everybody wants to work with somebody who has a big reputation and somebody who’s just a local person and very good at what they do and has good referrals may be just perfect for a lot of people. That’s the kind of practitioner that some people want to work with, they actually prefer. So you don’t have to brag about yourself. You don’t have to boast, you don’t have to pretend. You can just be your best self and be how you like to work and use your strengths.

So the second thing I would say is, Figure out what you most enjoy doing and where you’re at your best vis a vis potential clients, and then engineer that. So if your best communicating by email, then you want clients who are comfortable that way and not everybody is. I’ve had a couple of clients who don’t want to settle anything by email. They want to settle everything by a phone call. And that’s stressful for me, honestly. I mean, I’ll put up with it to a certain extent if I really, really like the client and it’s the kind of work that I enjoy doing. But it’s a pain in the neck to me. And, it’s not the way that I prefer to work with people.

So figure out what works best for you. And there’s nothing wrong with telling people that you do most of your work by email, not over the phone. And that way you get the people who want to be working with you and you get the people who you want to be working with them in that way.

Terri Connellan: Great. I love that. It’s interesting as you described that because phone calls are not a preferred way of working too. So everyone has their preferred modes of communicating and their preferred ways of working, but I love that you stress that it really helps to be upfront about that and communicate that because as you say, people can often think that it’s not okay to say I use this preferred way of communicating where for somebody else that’ll make their heart sing.

I had to laugh a little while ago cause I was talking with someone about the phone and he said, Oh, I only use my phone for phone calls. I said, goodness. I use my phone for just about everything but phone calls. It was just hilarious. Both introverts interestingly, but it’s just interesting how we do have such preferences, personality driven or otherwise for how we want to be communicating.

So that’s a great point. And I also really appreciated your point about, you know, just being who we are. And as you were talking, I was thinking of Paul Jarvis’s book. I don’t know if you’ve heard of his book, Company of One. And it, he talks there about how he actually loves just being a company of one person and he doesn’t want to scale up. The way he wants to work is have a small team around him. He doesn’t want too many people. He doesn’t want to go big and his business and his marketing is driven by just keeping it small. So I think that’s really refreshing too.

Marcia Yudkin: And the thing to remember is however you like to work, there are people out there who also like to work that. So tell them. So for example, if somebody’s thinking of me as a writing coach, I need them to know that I’m candid, that I’m frank, that I’m not a touchy-feely kind of writing coach who’s going to always say, Oh yes, it’s wonderful. It’s wonderful. That’s not the way I handle things. If that’s what they want, they should go to somebody else. And so it’s really important to know yourself and to communicate those things so that you get the kind of clients that you enjoy working with.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And are there any particular practices and tools that you encourage introverts to explore, to help with marketing themselves?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, as I said, I always start by asking, what is it that you do best? So I’m always surprised at the variety of answers that I get. So there was one woman I was coaching to be a marketing consultant, and I never met her face to face. We just talked on the phone. I never saw a picture of her. So my sense of her was just how we related over the phone and by email and my impression of her was that she was kind of mousey and quiet and retiring and I worried a little bit about how she would find her place as a marketer.

But one of the things I recommended to her was that because she was looking for local clients, I said, Why don’t you go try BNI? And if you’ve heard of BNI it’s a certain kind of local networking arrangement. They have chapters all over the world, so I don’t, I’m sure they have it in Australia as well, but, It involves a weekly face to face breakfast meeting with about 20 people.

So it turns out she was really good in that situation because she was able to relate to people one on one and have conversations about what they did and what she did. And she was able to explain what she did in a way that was not intimidating to her. And she got her calendar all filled up to start with from this networking group and it helped that the structure, BNI has a certain structure that facilitates those kind of one-on-one conversations within the group. And they encourage referrals within the group, but she was off and running much faster than I would’ve imagined, and it was great. I was so happy for her.

Terri Connellan: That’s great. I love that example because to me again, that can be a real introvert strength. That ability to have really focused one-on-one conversations and to find an organization that provides that sort of structure to enable that to happen, that’s a really fantastic way of looking at marketing yourself and putting yourself out there. Again, the stereotypical idea is you must talk to a room full of people and for many, that’s not the best way to reach people.

Marcia Yudkin: No it’s not. And when I lived in Boston, it’s a big city as big cities go in the United States. And I did a lot of networking when I was building up my business, but, I approached it in a certain way. My idea was that if I go to a meeting and I have one really, really good conversation with a potential client, I’m happy. It’s not a matter of collecting business cards. It’s not a quantity thing, it’s a quality thing. So I remember one time there must have been 200 people in the room and I somehow got talking with a certain woman and we really clicked and she became a client for 20 years.

Terri Connellan: That’s fabulous. And again, it’s just tapping into, strengths anyone can have. But I think particularly, for some introverted types, that ability to really have, focused meaningful one-on-one conversations is a real strength and something that we can be really good at and we can tap into and use that as a way of weaving into our practices. So we’ve got ways of connecting with people. So that’s a great example. Thank you. As someone with INTJ preferences for introversion, intuition, thinking and judging as I also have, what works for you in marketing, Marcia?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, some years ago I did a report called Marketing in Tune with Your Personality, and I interviewed one person from each of the eight introvert personalities in the Myers Briggs system and asked them how did they succeed in their marketing and what did they like and what did they hate? And then I wrote it all up. And so I went back and looked at what the INTJ person in the report said.

And he said what worked best for him was a free initial consultation, which unlike many other people, he did as an actual consultation. So instead, it was not a sales thing. It was really giving the other person advice, and here’s a quote from him. He said, ‘the one-on-one client first session does not feel to me like selling. It feels more like giving them a valuable gift and enjoying the transformational process of seeing them really get what I’m all about.’

Mm. So that was him and for me, I actually don’t do free initial consultations. I’ve never done them. Someone wants to work with me, I always made it, okay, you can read all about me on my. You want to work together, let’s get started and get started with a real paid consultation. And that worked for me.

But in terms of marketing, what was my secret weapon. My not so secret weapon was for more than 20 years, I did a free weekly marketing newsletter. It was called The Marketing Minute. And at its highest point, it had, maybe 15,000 subscribers. I don’t know if that sounds like a lot or not, but it was like a money machine because every week I would have literally something that took a minute to say out loud, 180 words. And then I would have a special offer. So anybody who was reading the tip of the week or the example of the week or whatever it was, then their eye would naturally go to the special offer. And some of them worked, some of them didn’t work, and some of the ones that worked, worked really, really well.

So it was like, My marketing minute went out and a couple hours later I would look at my inbox, how many orders did I get, how many inquiries for consultations and so on. So that was my secret weapon, and it was something I really, really enjoyed doing. So, the only thing that got me to stop doing it was when I decided on my new newsletter, Introvert Up Think, and only then was I able to close down the other, the Marketing Minute newsletter.

Terri Connellan: Mm. And you’re using Substack for that, aren’t you? Which, um, Yes, I am. Is becoming quite popular, isn’t it, as a way of reaching people?

Marcia Yudkin: I like the platform actually, because almost everything that I wanted to do, it has an easy way of doing it. So they’ve created the infrastructure. And, I’ve read a couple things by the founder of the company and I like his whole philosophy as well. So he’s trying to create a culture of readers, and a culture of writers writing for readers, and the whole ethos of the company seems to be around quality writing. It’s not so much sell, sell, sell kind of marketing writing. I mean, maybe there’s some people who using sub stack to do that, but, the way the company talks to its customer base and the way it sets things up, it really is set up to make it easy for writers to communicate with an audience.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I’ve been looking at it too. I think it’s really interesting. And for those who might not be familiar, and correct me if I’m wrong, Marcia, but my understanding is that, Sub Stack works as a free platform where you can create content and it looks really beautiful. It looks a bit reminiscent of blogging in some ways, like a combination of blogging and newsletters, but then people have the opportunity to pay for additional content. So, yeah, so I think that’s a really beautiful, easy way, isn’t it, to bring people to services.

Marcia Yudkin: You can also import a list from some other platform without any problems. That was a big thing for me because I had so many subscribers from My Marketing Minute, not all of whom chose to go to the introvert newsletter, cause not all of them are interested in those issues. But anyway, I was able to import those people who wanted to join the introvert newsletter. That was easy. It has a free platform with no problem whatsoever. So maybe you’ll never charge anything for anything, for any of your content.

And if so, Substack is happy to have you as a customer. They’ll never make money from you. That’s okay. But they also make it easy to start charging for extra content from your subscribers, and they tell you what they think the the going rate is. People in these subject areas can charge more and if you’re not, don’t go there and so on. So if you set up an option for paid subscribers, then Substack will take 10%.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, which is great. So there’s not huge upfront costs, which I think is a really great model in this day and age where there’s a lot of costs isn’t there, and running a business. So it’s excellent. And encourage people to have a look at Introvert Upthink. We’ll put the link in the show notes cause it’s a great platform and great ideas there. So if people are aiming to market to introverts or be inclusive of introverts in their marketing, what might they think about in their marketing approaches?

Marcia Yudkin: Two things. The first thing is don’t force them into your paradigm. So if you have a certain paradigm that you think is the bees knees, it may not be right for introverts. Don’t try to cram everybody into it. So for example, I had a job coach who approached me and her number one question was, how could she get her introverted clients to do informational interviewing.

She thought that there’s no way that you can get a job in this day and age without doing informational interviewing. So in case somebody doesn’t know what that is, it’s where. You find somebody who’s in the job or in the industry that you want to get a job in, and you call them up and ask them, basically to mentor you for the space of a lunch or a breakfast.

And so you can ask them questions and so on. And it’s an unpaid thing and you’re basically asking them to do this huge favor. And I told her, forget it, . This is not something that introverts are ever going to be comfortable doing or be good at doing.

And in fact, if somebody asked me to do an informational interview, I don’t know if I would even agree to it, and I certainly would not agree to do it if I were looking for a job because I don’t like asking favors of people. Hmm. It’s just something that’s unpleasant to me. And because if I wouldn’t do that favor for somebody else, why should I expect somebody else to do that favor for me? And so she wasn’t happy with this. She wanted me to tell her how to convince introverts to fit into her system and that wasn’t going to work.

And the second tip is to respect their privacy. A lot of introverts are really conscious about and protective of their privacy. So here’s an example of something that that is respecting privacy. So I signed up for a writing class and they have an online forum where the people in the class can interact and ask questions and so on. And it’s set up so that all the students in the class appear when they post something with their first name and their last initial. I’m really comfortable with that, and it made me happy that I wasn’t outed to all the other people in the class by my full name unless I chose to do that.

And so that’s the kind of thing that an introvert may be very attentive too. And, I’ve had introverted clients who wanted to give me a testimonial, for example, but they were very unsure about the idea of having their city and state put at the end of the testimonial, which is customary that a lot of people do it that way. And so I said, Fine. You know, we don’t have to do it that way if, if you’re not comfortable with that.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there are two great tips, particularly the idea of not forcing, trying to get introverts to do something that might be good for them is almost what it sounds like from what you’re describing. And, it’s just finding that shoe that fits for the right way of doing things, both in terms of privacy and in terms of paradigm. So thank you for that. I was really interested to see that you run an introvert book club, which highlights the work of introvert creators and introverted characters, which is a great idea. So what can we learn from introverted characters, whether it’s in fiction or real life?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, this introvert book club is part of my Introvert Up Think newsletter. So once a month I have a post that is, focused on the book of the month, and that’s for my paid subscribers. So that’s my added value that I’m giving to the people who pay for the newsletter. So I’m going back through a lot of classics, the kinds of books that we may have read in high school or in college. And I’m going back to them to see what we can pull out of them or learn from them specifically about introverts. And it’s just been so interesting to me.

So for example, I did The Great Gatsby and my theme for the Great Gatsby was the mystique that introverts can have when they’re sort of distant and unattainable and on a pedestal and not very communicative. So I went through the novel and found all the places that highlighted the mystique that Gatsby had, and why is it that we think of him in terms of glamor. The novel takes place during prohibition, during the jazz age and he had these parties at his mansion on Long Island Sound. And, yet he didn’t really attend his own parties. Like a typical introvert. So you can look at characters in fiction and people in real life that we’ve heard about as famous names and try and see what are some introvert themes you can pull out?

So, for example, I did a thing on Thomas Edison. We think of him as the in inventor of the light bulb and this solitary genius. And, one interesting thing about him is that he actually built the world’s first research and development laboratory. He was not solitary at all. He set a world record for the most patents, but he had dozens if not hundreds of scientists and technologists and chemists and so on, working for him on all his little projects.

He was the brain behind it. He was not solitary at all. And the other interesting thing about Edison is that he lost most of his hearing when he was in his teens and as an adult, he said that that was an advantage because if he was having lunch with people, he wouldn’t have to listen to all their small talk because he literally couldn’t hear it. And so he could just be thinking in his own mind about his invention projects while everybody is blabbing around him. Somebody approached him once and said, You know, I’m working on some device that can help people who are hard of hearing to hear better. He didn’t want to have anything to do with it. He was happy being in his own world and it’s only an introvert that would respond that way.

Terri Connellan: So that just sounds amazing. And from that I see you’re also writing a book on what we can learn from famous and fictional introverts. So tell us a bit more about this book, how it’s going, and why you felt called to write it.

Marcia Yudkin: Well, I’m not actually writing the book per se. In doing the newsletter, I’m preparing to write the book and I’m also building an audience so that I can get a book contract.

So I’ve had book contracts from big publishers in the past. I’ve been sort of out of that for a while. And in order to get back in their good graces, I have to show them that I have people who are interested in this topic and who are following me and so on. So I have a number of subscribers that I want to reach, and once I reach that number, then I’m going to approach the publishers and I’ll have been working on the topic from all these different angles in my newsletter. And I’ll be able to put together a much better book proposal than I could if I just sat down now.

Terri Connellan: That’s really exciting and I love the way that that whole piece as you just described it, writing the book, connecting with an audience, and also preparing to pitch to publishers. So that’s fantastic and really exciting and interesting as well.

I saw you also had a session on, or a piece on Emily Dickinson, who I always find really fascinating as an introverted writer. So yes. Yeah. Fantastic. So I think people will find that really interesting. So again, we’ll link to The Introvert Up Think, and you’ll be able to find information if you’re listening and interested in that newsletter.

So, the last couple of questions, Marcia, are questions I ask every guest on the podcast. So the first one is how have you created your story over your lifetime?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, I thought about this and I wasn’t sure how to answer it. But what I can tell you is that I spent the year 2021 writing a memoir, and the theme of the memoir is Success Without Ambition.

And in my life, I talk about in, in the book, ways in which ambition led me astray and that I’m better off having come beyond that. So it’s a very philosophical book and very introspective book. It’s very much an introvert’s kind of book and I spent a year writing it. One of the things I had to do was reread all my old journals in order to get back into how I used to be and so on. And so since I finished writing it, I’m letting it sit. I need to get perspective on it and I need to get feedback on it before I go back and do the next draft. So I’m not quite ready to get back to it. But I will be, and I don’t know if that book will come before or after the introvert book. We’ll see.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. But I love that focus in your memoir around ambition and how that fits with success. I think that’s a really interesting perspective and example of, different ways we can create our story and look at the themes that thread through it. So that sounds a really fascinating project. Look forward to reading more. So the other question I ask guests is about wholehearted self leadership, related to my book, which has some tips on wholehearted self leadership and practices for women. So what would be your top self leadership tips that you would share with people?

Marcia Yudkin: Well, if you remember, when I saw that question, I asked you, Well, what is self leadership? And you gave me a nice answer and I didn’t quite understand it. And I went looking for more articles, more content about it. And there was something that was not clicking with me. And finally I realized that the reason I was having trouble with the words. That specific phrase is that to me it was a little redundant. And in my experience, probably I’ve always had self leadership and so therefore I never had to think about it.

So if I look back, even as a kid, whatever I was interested in, I went and did it. And when I was in college, again, there were things that attracted me, I pursued them.

So one of the things I did when I was in college, I went to Brown University, which is part of the Ivy League here in the United States. But what’s specific about Brown is that they have an option where you can go through all four years if you like, without having any grades from your professors.

Instead they write evaluations of you. And I really, really liked that idea. It’s a small enough school that you can get to know your professors, so it’s meaningful as well. But everybody told me, you’ll never get into graduate school if you don’t have grades.

I said, Okay, that’s fine, . And, when I went to apply to graduate school, I got into every graduate school that I applied to, so they were wrong. And I, attention to myself. Is that what you’re talking about?

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I think it’s that idea of self-awareness is one is one part of it. Like understanding yourself, an introvert, for example, as we’ve talked about through this conversation. And it’s that self mastery and that ability to make choices. But yeah, I think what I’m hearing from you is that self leadership’s been a really strong theme, or that self mastery, self belief has been really strong in you right from the start.

Marcia Yudkin: And so my tip for that is to listen to yourself. And this doesn’t come naturally to everybody. So when I was mentoring people who were learning to become a copywriter, what would happen again and again, and I noticed it and I learned from it. What would happen again and again was that we would have a conference about what they were learning.

And I would point out, you know, you really had to do such and such here. And the student would say, You know, I thought about that. And I would say, And… so over the course of this 10 week program, when I mentored them, they would have practice in listening to and respecting their ideas that they had just gone flitting through their mind.

And this was a huge step in making them confident and skilled in what I was teaching them. And I think anybody can learn to do that. It’s just a matter of attention and confidence and, you know, maybe a mentor.

Terri Connellan: Mm. And it’s that discernment in there too of knowing when to trust that voice and knowing when another thing like fear is talking, like that sort of. It’s hard to describe, but it’s a developing practice about wise listening, isn’t it?

Marcia Yudkin: Yes. And in this particular program, we were talking about ideas. So it wasn’t the fear so much that I was asking them to pay attention to, or that we were talking about. It was the ideas that, you know, had gone flitting through their mind, but they hadn’t taken seriously.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I think that’s great advice that learning to listen to yourself, which I think is a lifetime practice, isn’t it?

Marcia Yudkin: Yes.

Terri Connellan: So thanks so much, Marcia, for your time today. It’s been really fascinating to hear more about you, about your work, particularly in the introversion space and the marketing space and how they come together, and also about your own writing and creativity, which is always fascinating. So where can people find out more about you and your work online?

Marcia Yudkin: They can go to introvertupthink.com spelled the obvious way. And, if you’re specifically interested in marketing for introverts or marketing to introverts, I have ebooks on those topics on Amazon and they’re just 2 99 each US dollars. I don’t know what they are, Australian or Euros or whatever, but, you know, just little things to get you thinking and get you started in this area.

Terri Connellan: Fabulous. That’s great. And we’ll put the link to Introvert Up Think and I can put the link to books too, if you like, in the show notes. That would be great to share with people.. Thanks so much Marcia.

Marcia Yudkin: Thank you very much for having me.

About Marcia Yudkin

For more than 10 years, Marcia Yudkin has stood up and defended introverts as worthy of respect and understanding. This developed out of her work as a marketing coach and consultant. She’s the author of 17 books and too many ebooks, online courses and so on to count. Her current focus is a Substack newsletter called Introvert Upthink, which critiques society’s misunderstandings and disparagements of introverts. She lives in the woods of Western Massachusetts, where she walks or runs five miles every day in the company of chipmunks, beaver, deer, porcupines and occasionally bears.

Introvert Upthink: https://www.introvertupthink.com

Twitter: http://twitter.com/marciasmantras

Marketing in Tune With Your Personality: A Guide for Introverts: https://www.yudkin.com/intune.htm

Marketing for Introverts: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ETBK9C

Marketing to Introverts: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DZYGYYH/

Terri’s links to explore

Books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition: https://www.quietwriting.com/wholehearted-book/ & quick links to buy: books2read.com/wholehearted

Wholehearted Companion Workbook: https://www.quietwriting.com/wholehearted-companion-workbook/ & quick links to buy: books2read.com/b/companion

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition: quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Personal Action Checklist for Creating More Meaning + Purpose: https://www.quietwriting.net/checklist

Coaching and writing programs:

Work with me: quietwriting.com/work-with-me/

The Writing Road Trip with Beth Cregan: quietwriting.net/writingroadtrip

Connect on social media

Instagram: instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

introversion personality and story

Gentle Living for Highly Sensitive People with Becky Corbett

May 25, 2022

In Podcast Episode 17, Gentle Living for Highly Sensitive People, I chat with Gentle Living Nurse, Becky Corbett about what it means to be a highly sensitive person (HSP) and Becky’s gentle living framework that provides support for HSPs.

Welcome to Episode 17 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Gentle Living for Highly Sensitive People.

I’m joined by Becky Corbett, aka The Gentle Living Nurse, a holistic nurse and coach for highly sensitive souls.

We chat about what it means to be a highly sensitive person (HSP) and Becky’s gentle living framework and podcast that provides support for HSPs. Becky also shares insights on burnout and impacts on health care workers in recent times and how people can nurture and prioritise their own well-being as they care for others.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Becky’s background as a nurse and challenges faced
Shifting to a path of gentle living
Being a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)
Strengths and challenges of being highly sensitive
How to balance your nervous system
High sensitivity and other personality preferences
Experiencing burnout and making change
Signs of burnout
Being a holistic nurse
Impacts on health care workers in covid times
Social media options as a highly sensitive person

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 17 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 25th of May as I record this.

I’m excited to have Becky Corbett join us for the podcast today.

Becky Corbett (aka The Gentle Living Nurse) is a holistic nurse and coach for the highly sensitive soul based in sunny Brisbane, Australia. The Gentle Living framework was birthed as a result of Becky’s personal healing journey of anxiety and navigating the world as a highly sensitive person (HSP).

Becky now supports other HSPs to create their own Gentle Living journey to nurture the nervous system, through combining elements of evidence-based science, spirituality and intuition. Her mission is to support as many HSPs as possible to connect with their sensitivity gifts to flourish and thrive!

Becky and I connected via social media and I have had the pleasure of chatting with Becky on The Gentle Living Podcast. So it was wonderful to connect again and focus on Becky’s very important work in the world. We chat about what it means to be a highly sensitive person (HSP) and Becky’s gentle living framework and podcast that provide support for HSPs. Becky also shares insights on burnout and impacts on health care workers especially and how people can nurture and prioritise their own well-being as they care for others.

Enjoy listening to this insightful and inspiring conversation and take some time to check out Becky’s fabulous framework and podcast.

So let’s head into the interview with the lovely Becky.

Transcript of interview with Becky Corbett

Terri Connellan: Hello, Becky. And welcome to the Create Your Story podcast.

Becky Corbett: Hello, Terri, it’s such an honor to be here. Thank you for having me on your podcast and congratulations on launching your podcast as well.

Terri Connellan: Oh, thank you so much. It was great to be on your podcast a little while ago, share our podcasting journeys and stories together.

Thanks for your connection across our work in the world, especially as it relates to personality, sensitivity and living our best life. And we’ve connected online around our work, so it’s great to chat further on this today. So can you tell people a little bit about you, a brief overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do.

Becky Corbett: Absolutely. Well, first up I’m very excited to be here because I’ve been following your work for a long time. Well before I even created my own business, so yeah, this is exciting. To give a bit of background about me, so I am a registered nurse, I’ve been nursing for about 12 years now, more recently in the mental health space. I’ve always had a fascination with the human mind and the body and what makes us tick and always searching for those deep answers to deep questions.

And through my nursing career, I’ve always felt as though something were missing. And I actually resonate a lot with what you say in your book Wholehearted about feeling half-hearted about what you might be doing and not feeling that sense of complete fulfilment. Like something’s missing, it’s sort of partly there, but it’s also partly missing. So yeah, through my nursing career, I always felt that something was missing. I don’t know. There’s probably listeners who work as nurses or doctors or health care workers and in the hospital system. It’s very directive. It’s very much, you tell patients what to do. You’re the expert, they’re not the experts. You have all the knowledge and the information. There’s a big hierarchy. The politics of the whole system, bullying is a really big problem as well. And so I experienced burnout quite a number of times through the hospital system and to deal with this, I really just pushed through because there’s this real culture in the healthcare system about we’re the people taking care of people.

So we have to push through and keep going. And so, yeah, I had lots of unhealthy habits as a lot of nurses do. So sugar, caffeine, bad foods, not exercising enough because I was always so tired. Alcohol is a big one for nurses as well. Just blowing off some steam with a few drinks because, it’s the quickest way to de stress. And anyhow, I eventually left the hospital system all together. I found it wasn’t serving me. I was really burnt out. I wasn’t really serving the people as best as I could do. Just wasn’t thriving in that sort of a culture.

So that led me down the path of gentle living, which is my business today. So I call myself the Gentle Living Nurse. And so somewhere along that path, I really reconnected with myself and my unique traits as not only being an introvert, but also as a highly sensitive person. And I understood that the root of all this anxiety and overwhelm and panic I was feeling sometimes was because my nervous system was so out of balance and I was just doing all the wrong things and seeking for the wrong answers.

So when I turned to the path of gentle living, which is all about gently exploring your nervous system health and taking care of yourself that led me to more fulfillment and that led me to the path of wanting to support people, to, nurture their gifts as a highly sensitive person, which is what I’m excited to speak more about today.

Terri Connellan: Well, thank you. Thanks so much for sharing about your journey from that sense of not feeling fulfilled in your work to moving through, to finding a path that takes those areas that you feel passionate about into new spaces and in new ways, and also growing your own self knowledge in that process.

So thanks for sharing about your journey and I love too that your focus now is on the nervous system and health and living holistically and living gently. So look forward to exploring that with you today. So your work focuses on the highly sensitive person, HSP, which you identify as, so how did you identify this in yourself and how might others also know they are highly sensitive?

Becky Corbett: Yes. So my work around the highly sensitive person, it evolved as wonderful things do. So when I first created my journey of gentle living, probably around the end of 2018, where I was really taking care of my nervous system and doing the things to nurture myself again and address the overwhelming anxiety that I’ve been experiencing for such a long time.

Through that process, yes, I had always identified as being quite an anxious person. I’d always been quite an anxious child. I suppose I didn’t really realize it at the time, but I look back and I think I was quite shy. I was quite anxious. I was quite withdrawal and at times, and there was never really an aha moment, I suppose, where I realized that I was a highly sensitive person.

It was just looking back in hindsight, I think. Oh yes, there were all these signs that, okay, this makes sense. I am highly sensitive. So as I was walking my path of gentle living to restore my nervous system, I realized that I wanted to empower and support other people to go through the healing that I had gone through and three things it and the stress and the burnout.

And through that, I learned a little bit more about the highly sensitive person. So I don’t know how I came across it. I don’t know whether it was 10 years ago, could have been earlier. Five years ago. I’m not quite sure, but it just all came to make sense. And a lot of people that I speak to who didn’t realize that they were highly sensitive and then I introduced them to the work of being a highly sensitive person, they sort of have the same, aha, yeah, that sounds like me.

So a lot of the research around being a highly sensitive person was pioneered by Dr. Elaine Aron, who is a therapist and scientist based in the United States and high sensitivity is a trait which is actually held by about 20% of the population.

So it’s much like hair or eye color. It’s not actually a disorder. It’s not a weakness. It’s nothing that’s wrong with you. Not any more than say having brown hair or blue eyes is a disorder. And it’s also not necessarily synonymous with being shy or introverted. In fact, there’s a strong correlation between being a highly sensitive person and being an introvert, but there are certainly highly sensitive extroverts as well. I think it’s around 30% of highly sensitive people are actually extroverts as well.

So to break it down for people that haven’t heard of the highly sensitive person, what it is, they’ll have no idea, the highly sensitive person, or as a highly sensitive person, we have more highly sensitive, nervous systems.

So what that means is we have very perceptive to the environment around us. We don’t really have as much of a filter on our nervous systems. I like to give the analogy of that. It’s not as filtered as say someone who’s a non highly sensitive person. So we navigate the world in technicolour. I sort of see it as so much sound, sensation, feeling, experiences that we go through. And that’s normal to us. We don’t know any different. And so that’s why as a highly sensitive person, if you’re not navigating life, taking care of yourself, taking care of the environment that you’re in or setting yourself up with the foundations that you need, you can become quite overwhelmed, stressed, burnt out because the world isn’t really set up for the highly sensitive person.

We pick up on subtleties in the environment, nuances, and actually some signs if you are a highly sensitive person and I suspect many of the people listening to this podcast, are probably highly . sensitive because most creative people, I would argue, have high sensitivity.

But the signs of being a highly sensitive person are things such as feeling your emotions really deeply, being moved by beauty, by nature, by the arts, by music, you might get quite teary if you engage with something that’s quite meaningful to you. I know for myself, I get quite inundated and flushed with emotion when I go and see a musical, for instance.

And I used to find that really embarrassing. Now I just take tissues with me and I allow myself to just really feel the experience of going to a musical. Cause it’s not a sadness. It’s sort of just an overwhelming sense of emotion that we experience. As a highly sensitive person, you’re probably also very sensitive to physical sensations. So very perceptive to things like touch, massage, might be a bit more sensitive to pain as well. We’ve got a really rich inner world and deep imagination, which makes us very good storytellers. Our imagination can sometimes run a bit wild and we can become overwhelmed and think anxious thoughts with that.

So we have to keep that in check as well. And like I mentioned, we’re very much effected by the external environment. So a lot of highly sensitive people will have some sort of sense that is a little bit overwhelming for them sometimes. And for myself that’s noise. I was just saying to Terri before we got on these chat that the man next door is mowing his lawn.

And that’s actually what aggravating to me, not to the sense that I’m going to tear my hair out, but, to the sense that it’s just a bit much. So I’m very sensitive to noises within my environment. So for other people that might be taste, it might be the smell, it might be emotions, it can be a whole range of different things.

It might mean that you’re also really affected by being in busy environments like airports or public transport, buses, shopping centres, being stuck in traffic, gyms, those types of things. And we’re also very deeply affected by the moods and the emotions of others too. So we’re very good at stepping into a room and then being able to detect the energy in a room. We can often tell if there’s been some sort of a conflict or there’s been something not quite right happen.

And we need to be careful not to absorb that as well. So a lot of highly sensitive people might get home from work and just feel absolutely drained. Not because anything significant has happened, but because the interactions, the sights, the sounds, the smells, everything that’s been going on through the day can become quite exhausting.

What else? Our conversations, we like to have really, really deep, meaningful conversation. So we make good podcasters. So like yourself, Terri, seeking deep, deep answers to deep questions. And with that too, we can ruminate a little bit, I suppose. We might come away from conversations and really over analyze what we’ve said or what the other person said. And did I say the right thing and what did they mean when they looked at me in that way? So we really need to take care to withdraw when we need to restore ourselves. And retreat into a little bubble sometimes too.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. That’s an amazing snapshot of what it’s like personally and for others who may be highly sensitive. So it sounds to me like, it’s almost like everyone has their own brand or experience of being highly sensitive that they need to learn to understand and then manage. Is that how it works?

Becky Corbett: Yeah definitely. Being a highly sensitive person. It doesn’t mean we’re all the same. We are all very diverse. And like you said, beautifully. Yes. It is almost like having your own brand of high sensitivity. So like I mentioned earlier, you can be a highly sensitive extrovert, so you can really enjoy being in loud environments, but at the same time, you might also be very sensitive to the sounds. Or you might be very sensitive to the conversations that are going on.

Or you might be more of an introverted, highly sensitive person. So it can just get a bit too much having too much social interaction, as well. So yeah, it looks entirely different for everyone. And it’s interesting because people that I have bought on to my podcast, actually, that didn’t identify as being highly sensitive, when they learnt more about the traits and what it involved. A lot of people have said, actually, that’s me. I think I’m highly sensitive because I think the word sensitive has a lot of negative connotations attached to it. And I think that’s sort of a cultural thing where we’ve been told that sensitivity is weak, or if you’re too sensitive, then you’re feeling too much and you need to toughen up. So perhaps some of the language around it can deter some people as well.

Terri Connellan: Well, that’s fascinating. So you’ve touched a bit on this, but interested to explore a bit more, what gifts do highly sensitive people bring to the world? You’ve mentioned creativity. That’s obviously highly correlated by the sound of it?

Becky Corbett: Yes. I love this question so much because so many HSPs that I work with HSP, highly sensitive person. So many HSPs I work with come to me and they just sort of feel like everything’s become a bit too much. They are overwhelmed. They’ve been told that they’re too weak, too sensitive, too emotional, too this, too that.

And so a lot of the work that I do is supporting people to realise that actually sensitivity can be a gift. And there is a lot that comes along with that as well. So interestingly, a lot of the great minds of the world, so artists, creatives, musicians, environmentalists, humanitarians, a lot of them are HSPs.

So some examples, actually if you have a Google, some examples I’ve found were, apparently, Albert Einstein, Princess Diana, Martin Luther King, Jr, Alanis Morissette, Jane Goodall. And so you can say they’re not just women either. So men are also highly sensitive, but again, I think a cultural thing is that men are meant to be sensitive. So perhaps women embrace it a little bit more, but I think the research shows it is 50 50. But yeah, women are more forthcoming about it. So yes, when HSPs let go of the story that they’re too sensitive or they’re too much, that then offers them the route to explore their gifts.

So yes, creativity is absolutely one. So deep imagination that we have brings life to things like novels, poetry, songs, beautiful books to the world. We’re very empathetic as well. So HSPs make wonderful friends, wonderful therapists, healthcare workers. But by the same token, need to be very careful not to become overwhelmed or to give too much or to take on people’s emotions too much.

We’re also quite intuitive. But often that is masked by anxiety. So if we’ve got an imbalanced nervous system that often manifests as feeling quite anxious and overwhelmed. We struggle to listen to our intuition, but when we can calm that anxiety down, then we can better tap into the intuition. And it’s very strong for us as well.

We’ve got a strong will to make a meaningful difference in the world. So we’re not interested in surface level questions or answers. In fact, those types of conversations are quite draining for us. There’s nothing, I hate more than being stuck in a meeting with surface level questions.

And oh yes, what are you doing on the weekend? You know, that kind of stuff. So I’m more likely to pursue those complex topics and to really seek answers there. We’re also peace and harmony seekers as well. So sometimes people may say that, we’re a little bit idealistic, but I think we need more idealism in the world looking at what the world is like right now.

That’s absolutely what we need and we do make wonderful leaders too. So I think there’s a lot of belief around leaders as being quite aggressive or arrogant, and that hasn’t gotten us very far so HSPs when they are in leadership, they make very fair, very strong and very wise leaders as well. So, yeah, that’s just skimming, the surface I’d say of the strengths of sensitivity.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, fantastic. What a great list of areas of gifts: creativity, empathy, intuition, meaningful differences, peace and harmony, leadership. They’re such a beautiful set of gifts to bring to the world. So I guess part of the challenge in learning to bring those gifts as well as you can to the world as a highly sensitive person, is learning to navigate the challenges. So what are some examples of the challenges that HSPs might face?

Becky Corbett: Yes. Well, because we are only about 20% of the population. The world is not really set up for the HSP. We do live in a very noisy world and if we don’t manage our experiences of anxiety and overwhelm, we are more prone to experiencing things like chronic illness or to experience even heightened mental distress, like severe anxiety or depression.

Some of the challenges in navigating the world as a highly sensitive person that come along because the world hasn’t been set up for us, we often try and camouflage in. So that can sometimes make us people pleasers. We’re very skilled at camouflaging and making sure that others’ needs are met so that we don’t seem like we’re too much of a bother or too much of a fuss.

So we’re very skilled at identifying the needs of others, but sometimes that comes to the detriment of our own wellbeing. And that might look like things I saying yes too often when you really want to say no. It might look like having really poor boundaries, not taking the time out that you need.

The overwhelm that we experience too can often lead to us, trying to perceive quick fixes to ease the overwhelm that we’re experiencing. So an example that I gave earlier in myself was my unhealthy habits, which was sugar to keep myself going, because I was always so exhausted. And when you’ve got heightened cortisol, the stress hormone in the body, you just more likely to crave and to seek out sugar, to mitigate that.

Alcohol as well can be a problem for some highly sensitive people, because it is a quick fix with our sensitive nervous systems. We are very responsive to alcohol very soon. So it just gives that. sort of instant relief. Caffeine as well to keep ourselves going, but then by the same token, and HSPs can become quite jittery with caffeine. And I suppose the strength that I mentioned before around having a lot of empathy or self-awareness, being able to look into conversations quite deeply, with that comes a tendency to ruminate. So we can go over things over and over and over in our minds and there’s no solution. It just makes us feel worse and our attention to detail as well.

We have a tendency to perfectionism. So a lot of the people I work with and most HSPs do identify as either being a perfectionist or a lot of them say that they’re recovering perfectionists, which is yeah, a challenge to overcome. And I don’t think there’s any quick fix to that either. It’s something we’re constantly navigating.

Terri Connellan: So in your work you provide solutions and strategies for some of these challenges based on your experiences and your skills. So as The Gentle Living Nurse, you offer a Gentle Living Framework and the Gentle Living Podcast for people who are highly sensitive. Can you tell us more about the gentle living framework and about the podcast too, and how it supports people?

Becky Corbett: Oh, I’d love to. Absolutely. So, as I mentioned earlier, gentle living is a framework that I really created for myself to start with. It was my own journey of trying to overcome this anxiety that I’d experienced really throughout my whole life, but never actually managed it properly.

I think it was because I’ve always been highly sensitive, but I grew up in a loving environment and everything, but I didn’t have parents that probably identified that I was highly sensitive. So when I pursued the path of gentle living, I was burnt out, overwhelmed, exhausted. And so I just returned to the basics of self-care, which involved taking care of the nervous system.

So it’s a framework really, which is based on my personal experience, my spirituality practices, but it’s also drawing upon the evidence-based strategies that I have used and learnt about through my psychology studies and also working in the mental health space. A lot of people who were experiencing mental distress or mental illness were highly sensitive people.

And so the foundation of it is really based on understanding your nervous system, how it works, viewing the self as a whole as well. Because I think in, especially in the Western framework, we see mind and body is separate and we still categorize them as mind, body, and spirit, but we are a whole person. And so we need to understand ourselves in the context of a very noisy world and understand exactly what we need as highly sensitive people to enable us to flourish and thrive. I see the HSP as being, like a rare flower or a plant, not a weak flower or plant, but just a rare one that needs ideal conditions to grow and to thrive.

And we know that when we’re immersing in the modern world and we’re not addressing our own needs and the nervous system is becoming more and more overwhelmed, it can really cause us to, wither up, so like a plant or a flower might wither up and not survive.

So I do a lot of work with people around identifying exactly what the stresses and triggers are in their lives, because we’ve got this tendency in our modern world, to just keep pushing through, keep going, ignoring any symptoms that we’re experiencing, ignoring any challenges that we’re going through. But really, we need to address the issues at the source.

So it might be things such as looking at well, what is your work situation like? Is your work burning you out? What’s your home situation like? Are you living somewhere that’s actually quite noisy and you’ve got noisy neighbors? Or you’re living in a big city and it’s not really the ideal environment for you. What do your relationships look like as well, because we as HSPs, although a lot of us are introverts, we still need that social connection. We need deep connections. So it’s important that we establish those deep supports.

The other thing is, are we living aligned with our values? And I know that’s something that connects with your work as well, Terri to really identify what are your values and are you actually living in alignment with them because we try to seek out the things that we think are going to be aligned with our values. But a lot of the time we are sort of living this lifestyle that’s just become too overwhelming for us.

The other thing is, do you listen to your intuition? I do a lot of work with my clients around listening to your intuition. What does it sound like? How is it different to your anxiety? And also rewriting any narratives that we have. So that may involve what I like to see as sort of re-parenting yourself in a way. So if you grew up in an environment where you might’ve had well-meaning adults or teachers or carers trying to look out for you, but they might’ve told you, “Oh you’re too much or too emotional, too this, you should go out, you should do this…”

And so a lot of that is going back to that, giving ourselves self-compassionate around that and identifying, ‘Hey, it’s okay that I’m this way,’ addressing what you need as a parent would to a child. So yeah, a lot of work is around identifying that the way that you are is okay. It’s not better than the non HSP. It’s not less than. It’s just as worthy as anyone else. And it’s really about creating a lifestyle that supports you. So again, thinking about that flower that might need the sunshine, might need ideal soil, shade, whatever it is, what are the things that you need to really flourish and thrive?

Terri Connellan: Mmm, it’s such important work in the world when you think of those beautiful cluster of strengths and gifts that we’ve mentioned. And then the challenges, your work is just so important bringing together personal experience, spirituality and evidence-based practices that, can really support people to get practical strategies for shining the way they are and not being too impacted by the challenges or being able to understand the challenge. A lot of the work I do, and I’m sure the work you do is about being conscious of things that are sort of bubbling away and I guess that’s where intuition comes in. Because often things are unconscious and then we don’t know why we’re going off the rails. Isn’t it? It’s about becoming more aware.

Becky Corbett: Exactly. And actually something just came to mind when you were speaking then I’m not sure who said this quote or where I read it, but someone out there and anyone that’s listening can, if they’ve heard the quote or whatever, I’m alluding to they can chip in. But there’s something said out there about being a highly sensitive person.

So when we’re navigating the world as a highly sensitive person, it’s like we have a pack of 48 colored pencils, whereas the HSP has a pack of maybe 12 colored pencils. So it’s okay to be exploring all of that, but perhaps not all at the same time. We need to appreciate that. Yes, we have these deep rich world, but we need to also honor our energy and our value system and our lifestyle too.

Terri Connellan: That’s a great way of looking at it. And it’s like, yes, you can do all those things, but not all at the one time. And your podcast too explores those areas too. You’ve got some great conversations with people about spirituality, evidence-based practice. And of course, just as on this podcast, personal experience, which is so important.

Becky Corbett: Yes. Yes. I love combining all of them because none of them need to be mutually exclusive either that you don’t need to just be a spiritual person or just be a science person. You can combine all of them to have the best results.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I think it’s great. So I know you’re also an INFJ in Jung/ Myers-Briggs terms. And as you’re talking and describing all this, I’m thinking, that sounds a lot like NF sort of temperament, and I’m thinking, how does this relate to personalities? So, how does being highly sensitive relate to other personality preferences, like being introverted, intuitive, or feeling, for example.

Becky Corbett: Yes. It’s funny because you don’t necessarily need to be an introvert to be highly sensitive, but so many HSPs I know are also INFJs, which are as you know, the rarest type. So it’s funny. A lot of the people I work with, when I ask them, what’s your personality type? A lot of them say they’re INFJs. So I tend to attract other INFJs into my orbit as well. But yes, it makes sense. There is a strong correlation between the N and the F parts of the personality profiles.

So for people that aren’t aware N is the intuitive part and F is the feeling yes, yes. Which are both strengths to the HSP. We’re all often deep feelers, we’re deep thinkers. And interestingly, the personality preferences leaning towards connecting with emotions of the self and others are more likely to be highly sensitive people.

So if you do have that NF component, as part of your personally preference, there’s probably some high sensitivity there. I don’t know if there’s been many studies actually done on it, but I think it would be really, really interesting to explore. From what I understand, the feeling component is often linked with personality types who are inclined to follow their hearts, their feelings, emotions. They’re often compassionate, warm, and friendly. But then they often uphold the needs of others before their own. Is that right?

Terri Connellan: Yeah, very much so. And the other key things with the NFs, they often idealists. And their key focus is often around values. It’s very values driven. And as you were talking, naturally having that sort of knowledge in my head, I’m hearing you talk about that really strongly, that what we value and what we want to share with the world and how we connect with people and have those deep, meaningful conversations about it.

Becky Corbett: Yes. It’s so interesting. Whereas I know personally preferences, which are probably more T and what is that the T [Thinking]?

Terri Connellan: I’m an NT [Rational/Intuitive, Thinking] I’m I N TJ. So I actually have the same dominant preferences as you, which is introverted intuition. I think we chatted about this on your podcast. But as you say, it sounds like being highly sensitive could cross any of those, but is more likely to be correlated with someone who’s intuitive and feeling in preference.

Becky Corbett: Yes. Yes, I think so. And this is probably generalizing, but perhaps preferences that are more leaning towards facts, figures, logic, probably less inclined to be highly sensitive doesn’t mean that they don’t care. It probably just means that they’re less inclined perhaps to hold the highly sensitive trait. But it’s not impossible by any means, but certainly because intuition and feeling are so deep for the highly sensitive person. I think that makes sense. Yeah.

Terri Connellan: So for example, an ENFP for example, could be highly sensitive. And as we were talking about, that sort of brand or how it manifests for individuals. For that person, there’s an extroverted way it might manifest and P [Perceiving] is often about opening up options, not having closure, having choice. And I guess that for that person being highly sensitive, may have many strengths, but also might manifest as too many options, which can get overwhelming. So is that how you see it play out?

Becky Corbett: Yeah, I think so. I don’t have as much in depth knowledge about Myers-Briggs or Jungian psychology types as you do, but certainly I have noticed that there definitely is a trend or a pattern there. And I like actually what you said about it, having your own brand, perhaps the different Myers-Briggs types are sort of different brands of the highly sensitive person.

So say an ENFJ versus an INFJ might be very, very similar, but the difference there is the extroversion, but they’re still more inclined to be very intuitive, have those deep feelings and, and still to perhaps ruminate and be people pleasers as well.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. Yeah, the people pleasing comes into it because it’s about harmony. Particularly for people who have that temperament, it’s very important and some more than others, but have that sense of, everybody being happy about a solution or an outcome and not wanting to rock the boat.

We could talk about this all day and we might have some other conversations on this. I think it’s fascinating. So you’re a nurse by background, but as you mentioned before, you found that hospital-based nursing wasn’t for you and that resulted for you in a time of burnout and unhappiness. So how did you rebuild refocus and rewrite your story to help and inspire others?

Becky Corbett: Yes, I’ve had about three burnouts, I think, through my nursing career. And each time it happens, it’s trying to tell me over and over again, Becky, you’re on the wrong path. Do something different and it can be the case for a lot of other people too, to experience burnout more than once.

So the first time I experienced burnout, really the most significant time was in 2018. As I mentioned earlier, that’s when I first created or came up with the idea of gentle living for myself. So I took some time off from work. I was very unhappy. I took a trip to India and they say that India always has something to teach you. Have you been to India?

Terri Connellan: No I haven’t, but I always love hearing stories about India and visits there.

Becky Corbett: Yes. I had read extensively that India will always teach you something and it may not necessarily be something that you want to learn. And that was my experience. Absolutely. So at the time I was working a lot of shift work, I was saying yes to all these shifts. I was doing double shifts. I was burning out, drinking too much alcohol to calm down, to manage my stress, had next to zero unhealthy habits. And when I was in India, I had planned to go on a meditation retreat and to do my training as a meditation teacher.

And before I went on the retreat, the day before I was due to start… So I’d traveled around India with my partner for a couple of weeks. And then I was going to do this retreat for myself. The day before I just had this intense panic attack. And it came out of nowhere. I didn’t have anyone there. My partner had gone home by that stage. I was in a foreign country and although I felt safe, my surroundings felt quite safe. I found the Indian people to be quite warm and I really loved where I was. It was just this internal state of panic that all of a sudden came out which I’d never experienced before.

And I think because of my mental health training, I knew how to identify a panic attack. So I said to myself, okay, you’re having a panic attack. Just do this, you know, name five things in the environment. Breathe. Do all those practical grounding strategies. In the midst of that panic though, I just thought I need to get out of here. I just had this intense desire to just go home.

And so I spent way too much money to book a flight back home, and I didn’t end up going to this meditation retreat, even though it probably would have done me a lot of benefit and on the flight home, I just thought, gosh, I need to change something. This is too much. Okay. Yeah.

Anyone that’s experienced a life turning event like that would understand that it’s really hard to put into words what was actually going on. But it was just this real intense desire to make a change. So I got home and I just decided, yes, it’s time to overhaul my lifestyle. And that began with quitting the job that was burning me out. When I spoke earlier about stresses and triggers, that was the number one thing that I just had to cut out. I know it’s not always practical to say, just quit your job. And I was lucky at the time that that was something that I was able to do, but it’s really just about mitigating whatever stresses you’ve got going on in your life.

So for someone else that might not have the option of quitting their job. It might be about reducing hours or just finding something else that’s not as triggering to the nervous system. So I ended up going into community mental health and I had another burn out there. I had better balance, but I had another burn out and I still wasn’t feeling that sense of wholeheartedness, which you describe.

And that’s when I really decided that I would create my own business. So I took care of myself first. I made small little changes along the way, and I think that’s really important to highlight to people as well, that it doesn’t need to be this whole, I quit my job and I changed my life overnight. It is a series of small steps.

When we look at other people that may have changed their lives or created a successful business, we tend to think, oh, they have it all. They’ve done it so easily when really it’s just making tiny, tiny, small steps along the way. So yeah, I decided to create my own business as soon as I’d gotten my health back on board and I decided, yes, I want to work with people that are like me because I always felt so isolated in who I was. I suppose I always felt like a little bit of an outsider. I was very good at fitting in and camouflaging, like I said earlier. But I had this sense to really want to connect with other people that were like-minded.

I had this really strange aversion to the word coach though, which is interesting. And it’s funny. I think there’s a lot of words that we need to challenge for ourselves and the meanings that they hold for us. And another one that I mentioned earlier was sensitivity or sensitive having a negative connotation.

So I had this strange aversion to the word coach and I thought, no, I’m not a coach. I’m a mentor, I’m a teacher, I’m a guide. And I just got real with myself and I thought, well, why am I feeling that aversion? And I think it was just because of these perceptions that I had around what coach meant to me. In my head, coach held the connotations of maybe being really upbeat, really rah rah, change your life and change your mindset, change your life, which is not my style at all.

And I think that extreme approach to overhauling things really quickly, made me feel a little bit unsafe, but now I’ve transformed that belief anyhow, and I know that coach could mean a whole different range of things, and I embrace that title now.

So I certainly, I didn’t quit my job and throw it all away, but I steadily built the blocks to get to where I want to be in a way that felt safe to me. So it was just about pivoting. So for anyone else, that’s listening. If they’re experiencing a challenging time, don’t feel like you have to get from a to b straight away. Just take a small shift or pivot with what’s realistic for you. That might be reducing your hours, setting more boundaries, changing up your relationships. And for me, it really started doing the work of taking care of my nervous system. and yes, now I’m just continuing to build and grow and not looking back.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s awesome. And they’re tough times, aren’t they?, when we hit b urnt out or hit the bottom or go through crisis. I certainly can relate to what you’re describing when you just know where you are is not the right path, but trying to work out what the right path looks like can feel quite challenging. But yeah, so agree with you, it’s just building small practices and often we can sort of say, well, I either stay or I go with our job, but there’s plenty of in-between options that people can explore. Like it could be working four days instead of five or working from home a couple of days or just something that helps manage. That maybe opens up some time for us to look at other options.

Becky Corbett: Hmm. That’s right just reducing the stress by even 2% to start with, 5%.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. We get a bit stuck, sometimes cause we’re overwhelmed, but then because we’re overwhelmed, we don’t have the time or the mental headspace to look at other things. Well, thank you for sharing your story. And, that’s really inspiring others and the work that you do is just fabulous. So what does your life look like now for you as a holistic nurse and coach on a day-to-day basis?

Becky Corbett: Yes. So I’m so pleased now that I balance an employed role that I really do enjoy as a health coach actually. So I support people in that role to reduce their risk of chronic disease. But I also run alongside that my business. Which I don’t see it as my side hustle. I see it as my main business and perhaps my employment is my side hustle. So the Gentle Living Nurse allows me to support my beautiful fellow HSPs, which has been amazing because I’ve been able to connect with other highly sensitive people from around the world. And connect to people who never even realized that high sensitivity was a thing.

So I support people through my one-to-one nurture program in which we address nervous system health. I’m looking to build into creating a group program as well, because I think it’s so important that us HSPs find one another, stick together and learn from one another’s experiences. Because like I said, we are in this noisy world where the majority of people are not HSPs.

I have periodic wellbeing workshops to learn more about sensitivity and what it means and how you can draw upon your own sensitivity gifts and learn more about the trait. And as you’ve mentioned as well, I have the Gentle Living Podcast, which you have been a guest on, which was so much fun to speak on all things about high sensitivity and how to nurture your nervous system. So I speak to people on a range of different things to address all the scientific elements, the spiritual elements, the practical elements, all of it, yeah.

Terri Connellan: Oh, that’s fantastic. You have a wonderful newsletter. I always love it when your newsletter lands in my inbox. It’s always like a warm hug around you as you read. We’ll pop the link in and just encourage people to connect with you.

So with the stresses on nurses and healthcare workers with COVID and other issues, what impacts are you seeing on individuals and how are you supporting them? You’ve covered a lot of work that you do, but perhaps there’s extra special things you’re doing in that field at the moment?

Becky Corbett: Yeah. Such an important issue. And I think a big problem is that a lot of nurses and healthcare workers don’t really seek the support that they need. There’s a big culture of not taking care of ourselves and one another. There’s the whole saying of nurses eat their young. So younger nurses come through the healthcare system and older nurses, which are burnt out. They might not even be that much older. They might have just been in the hospital system for five years or so, really give younger ones a hard time. And so they’re just not taken care of well enough, I believe. And the thing is a lot of HSPs are drawn to the areas of healthcare nursing, because they have a desire to make a difference.

But because it’s not the best environment, hospitals, are very noisy. They’re busy. They are overwhelming. They smell bad. They’ve go bad food. They’re not the best places for healing. So it’s understandable that even if you’re not a highly sensitive person, you just burn out quite easily in those fields. We’re losing so many wonderful doctors and nurses and therapists as well having worked through COVID and I’m not sure what the solution to that is.

But I think the entire health care model needs to change for a start. And I think more health care workers need to understand the signs of burnout for themselves. Because it’s very subtle to start with. As I’ve mentioned before, when I was in India, I was feeling exhausted. But realistically, looking back, I was burnt out, but I didn’t really realize it. And so I think identifying those signs of burnout. When I work with people in the healthcare field, it’s about identifying, well, actually are you burnt out? Cause burnout doesn’t need to necessarily mean that you’re physically burnt out.

It doesn’t mean that you can’t move necessarily, although it can be that, but it can also just be the experience of not thinking clearly, brain fog, feeling as though you’ve lost a lot of compassion. Not that you’re not a compassionate person, but compassion fatigue is a really big one for nurses and healthcare workers, because they giving, giving, giving so much of the time, but then they’re not receiving the support that they need.

It’s a really difficult question because I don’t know what the answer is. And I know for myself, the answer was to step away from that field. And I know that it’s not practical for everyone, but perhaps it’s taking those small pivots away, and finding something that’s more sustainable for them.

Terri Connellan: And also, as you said, just being more informed and more conscious of what’s happening to them. I think for all of us, but I’m sure those in the healthcare profession are probably even more likely to, like you said before, push through and think I’m okay, I’ll be right tomorrow. I’ll be better. But it’s just stopping, time out to identify those signs of burnout and that empathetic overload. The old oxygen mask story. Certainly experienced it when I was caring for my mother, a time when I was in that caring role, fairly intensely and that learning for me going through that time was I had to learn to look after myself to be able to care for my mother. And I think we all learn that on our life journey, but for those in the healthcare profession, that must be super intensified, it’s all about caring, isn’t it?

So speaking of self care, one thing I’ve noticed you have done recently, which I’ve been watching and finding really fascinating is that you stepped away from Instagram altogether and you also stepped away from social media generally for a while. So how does social media fit with being highly sensitive and living gently? And how do you manage your energy and choices?

Becky Corbett: Mm. Yes, I did step away from Instagram. It was a bit of an experiment, I suppose, towards the end of last year, I had a bit of a love, hate relationship with it for a while. So I loved the opportunity to connect with people. I connected with you and I connected with so many other wonderful people and I’ve been immersed in other people’s work. And I love the opportunity for collaboration and creativity. But it’s also an overwhelming space with complex algorithms. And I sort of stepped back and I started to think, if this was a physical place, what I want to be stepping into Instagram and immersing in all of this all the time?

So I did a lot of work around, I was really mindful of who I was following and I was trying to implement boundaries about not getting on and scrolling too much and fall into self comparison. But by the same token, it’s easier said than done too. So I found over time that the stuff I was creating wasn’t reaching people like it used to. And the algorithms have changed a lot as well. So there’s this whole thing with Instagram, where you have to be on the stories you need to do Lives, you need to do this and that and make reels.

And it was actually becoming overwhelming for me as a highly sensitive person. I was feeling, and I think it was pressure I put on myself obviously. But I was feeling this pressure that, oh, if I want to connect with people, I’m going to have to make a reel. I’m going to have to post this many times a day. I’m going to have these hashtags. And I got someone to help me out with my social media who helped with the scheduling for a little while, and she was wonderful, but it just didn’t feel right either. I like to be at the front end of creating all of my content and being in charge of that, I suppose.

I just was really cautious with how I was extending my energy and it was taking a bit too much of my time. And I found, I’m spending all this time creating this content. It’s not even reaching the people that I really want it to reach. And I experimented with maybe just diverting my attention to content that I knew was going to have a meaningful difference. For example connecting with my email list, connecting with my community. Having more time and energy for my one to one clients. Spending more time on my podcast as well, because that’s quite, time-consuming spending more time writing, blogging, all of those things.

And I just felt like my creativity flourished. It was sort of like if an HSP maybe steps out of a busy environment, like a shopping centre or a busy workplace, and they go into a little bit of a quiet bubble for a period of time, the creativity is more likely to flow again. And that’s just what I found stepping away from social media for a little bit of time.

And I went back on after a couple of months and I thought I don’t really miss this. I’m going to miss maybe seeing people’s stuff. But I don’t miss it as much as I don’t miss being in a really, really busy environment. And so I’m not probably off forever but certainly I’m enjoying being off it for now. And I think with some of the ethics, and this is going a bit deeper into it, but some of the ethics around social media and how it’s run as well didn’t align with me and my values. And some of it was a little bit icky for me. But I don’t judge people that are on social media and I don’t think I’m better than. Just a choice that you can make as a highly sensitive person. Just as much as you can choose to step out of a relationship that’s not serving you.

Terri Connellan: Good on you for honoring your creativity and your sensitivity and making those choices. I’ve shared that I love social media, but I must admit at the minute. I’m actually finding it a bit draining, which is unusual for me. So I think it is important just to tune into how you’re feeling about it at any one time and managing it, setting up structures, like you said, scheduling, someone else to support you. The nice thing about it is you can choose to turn it on and off. I love the way you described channeling your energy into connecting with your community, podcasting, writing, blogging, because it all takes time. And there’s so many hours in the day.

Becky Corbett: Yeah, that’s right. And I think there’s this big misconception as well that if you’ve got a business, you have to be on social media. And it’s absolutely not the case. It can be one part of it, but it doesn’t have to be. I think it’s a big trick that social media has made us all believe that you have to be on there to be making a difference, but you don’t.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. And just to choose for a while. We always want to be nurturing our community that we’ve built, but you know, to really focus on that, I think is really lovely way to look at it.

So a question I’m asking all guests on the podcast, being the Create Your Story podcast is how have you created your story over your lifetime?

Becky Corbett: It’s such a beautiful, reflective question. So I think many of us float along in life and we don’t, we don’t realize that we are the creators. We might have that realization at an early age, and then you may not, or it can be later in life that you realize actually, I am writing my story. And so I think I consciously took more control of this around 2018.

That magic time when I was in India, when I created Gentle Living. Before that, because I have experienced anxiety throughout my whole life, I just sort of thought, just float along thinking it’s just what it is. A lot of people don’t see themselves as in the driver’s seat.

So I have done a lot of work about rewriting my narrative, which has been a key thing. Understanding that no, I’m not too sensitive. I’m not too emotional. I’m not too much spite beliefs I might have had. Whether they came from adults or peers or people at school when I was younger. But actually learning more about being a highly sensitive person has been really, really liberating and empowering so much so that I feel that this is now my life’s work to support other people, to understand sensitivity and what it looks like for them and to come to the same realization that you really can create your own life.

And you really can overcome the challenges of sensitivity too. I think with the negativity bias that a lot of us humans hold or all of us humans hold in our brains where we weigh up the negatives in life a lot more than the positives. It’s very easy to fall into the trap of feeling as though a trait that you may have, or something about you just makes you not a great person or whatever. But really, there is so much more that you can rewrite and understand that yes, there are challenges and sensitivity or whatever it may be.

And you can capitalise or harness those gifts and then create your path going forward. So now I’m trying to set up a life that is supportive of my high sensitivity, going back to the rare flower analogy where I make sure that I have a lot of time in solitude, but also deep, meaningful connections. And I’m doing work that’s meaningful to me. That I’m constantly connecting with my values and doing that deep inner work as well to understand myself better. Setting up my life the way that I want it to be, which which we can do.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And I love that as you said, since 2018, particularly taking that time to rewrite your narrative to reframe both yourself and the work that you do in the world and focusing on that mission, that’s so important for you about supporting your own life. To live the way you want to live as a highly sensitive person, but also supporting others based on all your learning and your skills. Yeah. Beautiful.

Another question that I’m checking in with people on. As you know, I wrote Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition and share 15 tips in that book. But love adding to that body of work through hearing what people would share as their top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, especially for women. So I’d love to yours.

Becky Corbett: Yes, absolutely. My top one and I think because it lines up with one of my values, is I very much value learning and growth. And I would guess that probably everyone listening to this podcast values the same. I would say never stop learning, especially about yourself. Because we live in our own body and we deal with our own thoughts every day, I think we think we know ourselves quite well. But in fact, we probably don’t. So explore more about yourself, understand yourself better, whether that’s through personality profiling, whether that’s through exploring the high sensitivity trait, if that’s something that you resonate with. And approaching that, learning with a childlike curiosity, as well is so important.

So approaching everything with a beginner’s mindset, not going in and thinking that, you know it all, because I think when we go in and we think we know it all, that’s when we stop growing. And yeah, I think we have sort of stopped evolving by that stage and we don’t need to close our minds. So never stop learning would be my top one about the self.

The second one would probably be to take a really honest inventory of your life, which is something that was key for me when I got back from India. So you might not be able to change everything at once as we were talking about before. I think when we get real with ourselves, we sit down and we think, okay, what’s going on in my life? What’s not serving me? Even if I can’t change it, writing it down, just really getting clear about what it is.

So whether it’s being unhappy or unfulfilled in your job, your relationship, all those things that we talked about before. Do you need to make some changes? And what’s one small step that you can take each day, whether it’s 1% of where you want to get to or 0.5% of where you want to get to. What can you do each day?

There’s always some action that we can take each day and something that I like to do. I don’t get a chance to journal every single day. I would like to make that more of a habit for myself, still a work in progress. But one thing I try to do each day is just write one step. I can take towards whatever my higher vision is. So that could be something like speaking up for yourself. So you might have something challenging coming up that day. But really, you want to be able to set your boundaries a little bit more and you want to be more authentic to yourself. So it could be speaking up for yourself even though it’s scary. It could be setting some sort of a boundary or could be working on yourself, learning something about yourself, learning something about someone else, taking an honest inventory.

And the third one, which I think is really especially relevant for highly sensitive people, but I would argue it applies to all people is to really expend your energy wisely. Not only to avoid burnout but because we are under an illusion that we need to be productive all the time and it’s just not true. It burns us all out.

And as women, especially, we do have greater fluctuations in our energy than men, perhaps. Say with hormonal cycles, men have more of a 24 hour cycle, whereas women’s fluctuates a lot more of a day to day whether you experience a menstrual cycle or not. Our energy is quite different, so we’re not designed to go, go, go all day, every day. We do need those periods of rest, restoration, balance. It’s like the yang and the yin. Yes. We need to get up and do things, but by the same token, we need to care for ourselves. So how can you take care of your energy a little bit better?

So for myself, I always schedule time to rest, do nothing, have solitude in between periods of busyness. So if I’ve had, even if it’s an enjoyable social day or I’ve seen friends and been a bit of a social butterfly that day, I’ll make sure the next day that I’m resting and not doing anything. Because I know if I keep going, if I socialize the whole entire weekend, I’m just going to burn my wick too short, and I’m going to feeling so exhausted.

So just identify, how can you expend your energy more wisely? Like how generally, most of us would have an idea of financial budget and how much you’ve got to spend. I think we should have the same approach with our energy too.

Terri Connellan: I love those answers. Three really top tips about learning, taking an honest inventory and expending our energy wisely. So some immediate takeaways for people to implement in their lives now, and shift towards more wholehearted living, which is what we’re both about I think in our work in different ways. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure to chat with you today, Becky. So where can people find out more about you and your work online?

Becky Corbett: Yes, well, the best place to find me is on my website. So you can go to www.thegentlelivingnurse.com. And I’ve got the Gentle Living Podcast as well. So I’m just about to start season three on that. So that’s exciting. But they’re probably the main places to find me. And you can find out more about how to work with me or a bit more about what it means to be highly sensitive as well. I’ve just created a Self-Soothing Guide for the Highly Sensitive Person. How we can take care of ourselves, nurture ourselves, soothe the nervous system, practical strategies to take away. Yes, but thank you so much for having me, Terri. It’s been so much fun and again, it’s been an honour to be here.

Terri Connellan: Thanks so much, Becky it’s been great.

About Becky Corbett

You can connect with Becky:

Website: https://www.thegentlelivingnurse.com/

The Gentle Living Podcast: https://www.thegentlelivingnurse.com/thegentlelivingpodcast

Free Self-Soothing Guide: https://www.thegentlelivingnurse.com/selfsoothingguide