podcast self-leadership + leadership transition

Self-Styling Your Life with Janelle Wehsack

March 25, 2022

Styling a life on your terms with what you love and self-belief guiding the way.

Welcome to Episode 14 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Self-Styling Your Life.

I’m joined by Janelle Wehsack – Certified Life & Style Coach, Creative Writer and Distant Francophile.

We chat about Janelle’s signature approaches to coaching based on clarity, mindset and action and self-styling your life. With 30 plus years in corporate along with concurrently operating both a successful coaching business and Distant Francophile focused around a love of all things French, Janelle is an inspiring example of how to intentionally shape a life that you love. Plus she is a Self-Belief Coach with an extensive tool-kit for wrangling self-doubt.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Creating a self-styled life
Self-doubt and building self-belief
Janelle’s signature framework: clarity, mindset & action
Embracing a multi-faceted life
Choosing to work part-time in corporate and coaching
Integrating different skills and roles
Both/and thinking
Following breadcrumbs and experimenting
Working with evidence
The value of blogging
Distant Francophile

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 14 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 25th of March as I record this. There’s been a little gap in episodes as I’ve been travelling over the past few weeks, visiting Melbourne, the beautiful Great Ocean Road in Victoria and Mt Gambier in South Australia. We had a fabulous time away and it was wonderful to see new vistas, swim in pristine water and catch up with family and friends. You can see pics on Instagram @writingquietly.

I also met my writing partner and The Writing Road Trip collaborator, Beth Cregan, for the first time in person. That was a truly joyous moment. We’ve enjoyed such a rich connection, supporting each other with our writing and then creating a writing program for others to join us. So it was so lovely to meet in real life and we presented our Writing Road Map session together in the same room instead of miles apart. We will be kicking off the next stage of the Writing Road Trip soon with a membership program to help get your book or writing project completed with opportunities to write in community with support. And have fun on the journey. You can join our email list for the latest news.

I’m excited to have Janelle Wehsack join us for the podcast today. Janelle is a certified life and style coach and a creative writer who also happens to have 30 years experience – and counting – in the corporate world. In her coaching practice, Janelle employs her signature coaching framework that combines clarity, mindset and action to support professional women to dance with their self-doubt so that they can build tailor made, self-styled lives.

Janelle and I met online as fellow Beautiful You Coaching Academy life coaches and Janelle has also worked with me as a coaching client focused on transition. Our work dovetails around self-belief, self-leadership and shaping the creative, integrated life you desire. Janelle frames her coaching work around creating a Self-Styled Life which she also shares via her Self.Styled.Life podcast too. Self-styling your life means, in Janelle’s words: ‘you write your own rules and set your own limits. Or you choose to have no limits at all.’ Janelle shapes her creative, self-styled, highly individual life and business in new and exciting ways and that’s what we’ll be exploring today in the podcast. There are plenty of gems of insight to inspire you in self-leadership and navigating a path that integrates the unique aspects of you!

So let’s head into the interview with Janelle.

Transcript of interview with Janelle Wehsack

Terri Connellan: Hello, Janelle and welcome to the Create Your Story podcast.

Janelle Wehsack: Hello, Terri. It’s so awesome to be here.

Terri Connellan: So thank you for your connection. And I can’t wait to explore more about you and your self-styled life work today. So we’ve connected in many ways around coaching, living creatively, transition and self-leadership, and it’s great to be able to share those conversations today.

So can you kick us off by providing a brief overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do now?

Janelle Wehsack: I’d love to Terri and it is really awesome to be able to share some of the snippets of our conversations with all of your fabulous listeners. And I feel like my background is something that people might resonate with because it’s a story of decades.

So back when I was a teenager, I didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So I finished high school and got a job in a bank, interestingly 31 years tomorrow to the day since I started in with that job at the bank. And so my twenties turned into something that I would say was full of life lessons. Or what we’d commonly call life’s lessons. I was married at 21. I had a baby at 23. I was a single mum by the time I was 25. At 27, I remarried. And then at 29, I decided it would be the perfect time to go casual at the bank and head back to uni full-time. So we squeezed a lot into that decade. And then the thirties was all about building my career, which I did quite quickly.

And then my forties probably got me to where I am today. It was during that time that I started a blog all about France. I studied life and style coaching as well as deep diving into self-belief coaching while still working in that banking career. And today my life is a perfect for me mix of a blend of my day job, my coaching practice, writing, growth, Distant Francophile, which is that blog I mentioned earlier. And it really is a life I’ve styled myself.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. What an amazing journey you’ve been on. And congratulations, firstly, on 31 years in the bank, that’s amazing.

Janelle Wehsack: Yes, can’t say that when I started there 31 years ago that I ever expected that I would still be there, but the bank’s been an awesome opportunity for me and certainly a really good lesson in the fact that you can thrive in corporate. And that you can also reinvent yourself in corporate, which I don’t think is something we talk about too much.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think something we’ll explore as we go through today is sometimes we can find ourselves being pushed from one view of life to another. And I think the fact that a theme or a thread of corporate life can be really positive thing in our life is something that ‘d be great for us to explore as we talk further.

Congratulations too, on all those incredible shifts and pivots. And I love that, like me blogging, coaching appeared as key markers and tools and supports in your journey. That’s fantastic too. So, a common feature of our work is self-leadership and as you frame it in your work, a self-styled life. Can you explain to listeners what a self-styled life means for you and what it might invite in our lives?

Janelle Wehsack: It’s really interesting, isn’t it, how we can language, what is essentially the same thing so differently? So your work around self leadership and what I call self styling for me, they both come down to really leading a self-determined life, however we language it.

Now, I dragged out the good old Collins dictionary Terri for this one. And that dictionary defines self-determination as ‘the act or power of making up one’s own mind about what to think or do without outside influence or compulsion’. And practically, I think that translates into a life where you know what you want and you know where you’re going and you live by your values and define your measures of success.

For me, when you’re living a self-styled life, you fill it with beautiful humans and beautiful experiences and objects that bring you joy and fulfillment. And I think it’s true for all elements of your life. Be it career, your relationships, your creativity, finances, your wellbeing, all of the things. And it’s about, for me having all of the areas of your life, firing, like you want them to fire. For instance, it’s not just about having a great career and no hobbies, nor should you be sacrificing perhaps your professional life or your creativity, because you’ve chosen to have kids or babies have come along.

It’s about deciding that it’s okay for you to be excited by all areas of your life. And for me, when you decide to self-style your life, you write your own rules and you set your own limits. Or you choose to have no limits at all. And I think you start to let go of that endless comparison that’s so ingrained in us from such a young age.

I’m sure some of your listeners will have heard that quote that’s attributed to Theodore Roosevelt about comparison being the thief of joy. And yet our whole societies are set up to compare us right from the start. From the minute we’re born, we’re compared by our birth weight, then we’re compared by our grades that ends up deciding what we’re going to do in terms of school or life choices. So whilst we talk about comparison being something that we want to let go of, it’s something that’s ingrained in society.

But for me, I think letting go of that comparison, or if you can let go of that comparison, that really does help you to live life your way. And I think the last thing I’d say on this one would be when you choose to self-style your life, you also build out the skills that help you deal with self-protective behaviors, like perfectionism procrastination and people pleasing that get triggered by self doubt. You’re regularly giving yourself permission to say ‘I’m okay to do life my way’. And I think that’s a really powerful thing for women in particular, to be able to do.

Terri Connellan: Beautiful. And I love that in your reflections there, we had so many beautiful words like, self-determination. I often use the word self-directed, which is quite similar, I think. Self-honoring, self- styling and a term I use in my work self leadership, and I so agree that we often have a set of experiences that takes us towards something similar, but we all bring our own take to our coaching work and our unique vision on life that leads us to shape what might seem to be something similar or something that dovetails in different ways.

So I love that self-styling and self-leadership can be two different ways of looking at one particular, or many-faceted, a gem comes to mind, something that reflects different angles.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. I think that’s a really beautiful way to think about it too. And I hadn’t considered it in terms of a beautifully cut emerald or a beautifully cut diamond at all. But that’s part of the self-leadership or the self-styling for me as well is actually choosing the words that resonate for you out of that piece. And for me, I’m not sure I was comfortable enough in the early days to have chosen different language or picked the words that meant something to me.

So again, I think that just emerges as you start to get better at this stuff, as you dance with your self-doubt, build your self-belief and really start to step into doing life your way.

Terri Connellan: Yes. I think a lot of the ability to really embrace some of these things we’re talking about comes as we get older, as we mature, as we experience more, as we grow in wisdom. But it’s all those life experiences and you gave us a beautiful snapshot of all the different milestones and hallmarks that have come in your life as you’ve moved through your journey. So with all of the things that you’ve been through and all the choices that you’ve made, how have you self-styled your own life?

Janelle Wehsack: If I really reflect on it, Terri, I don’t think that I really started self-styling my life, or living life my way until I got into my forties. It was around my 40th birthday when I looked around and realized that I’d built an amazing career or an apparently amazing career, but I hadn’t really built a life.

I was working seven days a week, almost every week in my corporate role. I was fighting hard with an inner critic who told me that I was a fraud and that I was going to be found out at any moment. I had zero hobbies. Whereas my hubby Scott had heaps and I was endlessly counting the days till our next trip to France.

Then there was the fact that my role as a mum was downsizing. Our son was starting to live his own life, and I’d been filling up the increasing space with my day job. And it was all leaving me feeling exhausted and dissatisfied and seriously questioning my life choices. And I realized at that point, that’s not what I wanted my life to look like. And so I started working with a coach myself to help me build more confidence in my career and build creativity into my life. Because if I was going to be able to do it on my own, I already would have.

So that decision started a journey for me that I now know is called following breadcrumbs. And this is where the blog piece started because when I was young, I really liked to write. And then as an adult, I love traveling to France. So I started blogging about France and then because everything style-related in France is just so fabulous, that led me to doing a style coaching qualification. And then in turn that led me to life coaching and becoming a certified life coach. And then ultimately discovering self belief and self-belief coaching.

So it really was a journey that started just with that creative piece. But in the meantime, because I was doing all of those things, my confidence grew as I was taking new actions, undertaking experiments, doing all of the things and that supported me in my corporate role.

So I actually went from having a big job to having an even bigger job. But interestingly, because of all of the other things I was doing, I was able to handle it better because I had so much more, I don’t even want to say balance in my life, but I had other things in my life that allowed me to, I guess, keep my job in perspective and it could be remain big, but I had other fun things that I wanted to do. Like I said earlier, today my life looks like everything I love and I find interesting all swirled together in a way that’s just uniquely me.

Terri Connellan: Mmm, and as you were talking, I was thinking of the other women and men that I’ve interviewed on this podcast and it often seems to be a journey. I think that we perhaps spend time focusing on things like corporate or like our work, like our family, for example, being a bit one-sided. And then, realising typically as we get into our forties and fifties, for me, it was more in my fifties, realising that there’s these passions we’ve left behind or there’s these things we really love that we want to incorporate more into our lives. And, almost it’s like becoming more multifaceted as we get older, bringing those threads back in. But I think also too, reflecting on what connects them.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. I’d agree. We’re back to that gem analogy though, aren’t we, around allowing things to be multifaceted. And I know for me, I didn’t bring any of that creativity forward in my life. And then I had to consciously go looking for it. And what’s interesting is how often we don’t know what it is that we want to do. So we understand something’s missing, but actually working out what we want to do can be a real challenge.

And so I think that’s where that idea of following breadcrumbs is really helpful because you can just start with something and see if you like it and then see where it leads you without putting any pressure on yourself for it to become the be-all and end-all or for it to fill up your whole life. You’ve already got a full life and you can add more in, it turns out.

Terri Connellan: Beautiful. I love that bread crumb analogy. It’s something I’ve used in my own thinking, whether it’s following the trail of the books that you love or the passions that you love, the skills that you love, there’s lots of different trails that you can follow.

And, yeah I love that idea of testing and trying and not feeling like we’ve got to find the one thing that’s the answer.

Janelle Wehsack: Yes. I agree entirely and yet, so often it is that we think we’ve got to find the one thing. But yeah, that either or thinking doesn’t always serve us.

Terri Connellan: No, not at all. So you integrate a corporate leadership role in the banking sector with coaching others in your own business. So what have you learned about how these two areas support each other.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. Well, we’ve mentioned we’ve had lots of conversations in the past Terri and one of those conversations has been around how I’ve consciously chosen to work part-time in both arenas. And that’s not necessarily typical for people to be coaching and still working in a big role in corporate. And like all working environments, both the corporate and the coaching industries have stories that tend to tell you how you’re supposed to do these things.

So if you’re in corporate, you’re giving all of your blood, sweat, and tears and your weekends and your nights to corporate if you want to do a good in inverted commas job.

And then similarly we know in some coaching circles, certainly not all, but some coaching circles, it’s the be all and almost end all to be coaching full-time and leaving your corporate role. So I know the way that I’ve put things together isn’t necessarily the norm.

But for me, apart from providing a really good example of how I’m self-styling my life, I feel like I get the best of both worlds and show up better to both worlds because of the way that I’ve integrated these pieces. Coaching’s my way of supporting others and I absolutely love it, but I also enjoy the leadership opportunities that come with working in corporate transformation, which is what I do for a day job.

I have stimulating work. I’ve got an awesome team. I have options for growth and I value all of those things really, really highly. And I feel like, although my team might tell you differently, but I feel like I show up as a better workplace leader. Thanks to my coaching skills, I have a deep understanding of those protective beliefs that hold professionals back, and I’m able to use those skills to support my colleagues’ success.

But similarly, I think I’m a better coach and mentor because I’m still working in that corporate space and I’ve got three decades of experience behind me and my coaching clients work almost exclusively in multi-national and national corporations and things shift really quickly in those spaces.

So for me remaining in corporate helps me to understand their environments, their trends, and even their language. And that I think helps me support my clients even better. And then finally, I think one of the key words in your question is around integrated and it’s become really important to me that I use all of my skills and experience in an integrated way.

It’s not something that I’ve always done, but it’s become more and more important. And as I said, just a minute ago, either or thinking doesn’t really support me or my clients or my employer. And if I can bring everything together and show up wholeheartedly in everything that I do, I think it means that I add more value both to my employer and to my clients. And ultimately to myself.

Terri Connellan: That’s an incredible story of the value of not engaging in either or thinking isn’t it? It’s that idea of, some people talk about both/ and thinking as the opposite of that. So have you found it’s easy for people to get into either or thinking about their life options?

Janelle Wehsack: Oh my goodness. Yes, absolutely. I see it all the time. And as I said, if you talked to me in my thirties, I think I’d fallen for it absolutely myself and I think what we were saying before, especially for those of us who might be in our forties or beyond, that idea of having to choose the one thing and get it right was ingrained right into us, right from the start. And you can tell from that question that we ask every child or that every child’s been asked, what do you want to be when you grow up? Like we have only one choice when we answer that question. And I think while it’s really pleasing that we see books like Emma Gannon’s The Multi-Hyphen Method and Barbara Sher’s Refuse to Choose, sharing a different message now, I think there’s still a whole lot of societal rules that tell us what you have to be, X or Y. Or you can only have one or the other, you can’t have both.

And I think for women in particular, that means that they can limit themselves. Surely you can’t have only one or two things, hobbies or passions for yourself if you’re being a good girl and putting everybody else first.

I think my best advice for exploring more integrated options is to adopt what I call the ‘and’ strategy. So whenever my clients or my team share an either or option, I always ask them to explore whether there is an and or both option available to us. One where we don’t have to choose and we can get the best of both worlds. And often I find just opening people up to that thinking can bring forward other ideas and there can be a real excitement when that creeps in, when they realize, oh, I could have both. Maybe I don’t have to choose.

But I feel like I’m the wrong person answering this question because I think you’re the real leader in positioning the fact that we can bring together the many facets of our lives in a whole hearted way. So I’m curious to know what you’ve seen in that space.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. That’s a great question to ask of me cause it’s what I’ve certainly thought about and often work on with coaching clients. And as you were talking us, I was reflecting on my situation, which is post paid employment in the job that I was in, but crafting my own creatively focused life.

And the question I often get asked by people is: how’s retirement? So, there’s again this dichotomy in society that, you finished paid employment, therefore you are retired and therefore you’re just spending your days relaxing and freewheeling. But my life, my partner’s life, we know we both work in different ways, but similarly are both very busy and I think it’s about choosing to see that the life options that we have don’t necessarily fit into those categories that society chooses for us, whether it’s by lifespan or by definition of paid employment or role, mother or grandmother or whatever it might be, retiree.

But I think it’s important for us to tap into what we really want to do, back to those breadcrumbs and those passions and those life options, and craft a life. That’s why I called this, Create Your Story. It’s about creating the life that you want from all those different passions that you have, including earning an income in one way, shape or form, because we need to have money to survive, but also being creative about those aspects too. Like how do we earn an income? How does money come in? What’s a portfolio career look like?

Meredith answered it beautifully too in the podcast chat with her where she divided up her week into: How much time have I got for counseling? How much time have I got for making films? How much time have I got for doing psychological work? And I think that’s was a beautiful way too of looking at all the things you want to do, seeing how you can take those life options and craft them into a life. And I know that’s something you’ve really explored beautifully in the work that you do.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. And I loved the episode with Meredith. That was just such a beautiful conversation. And certainly I’d encourage anybody who hasn’t listened to that episode to go back. I thought it was just perfect for these times, but I think it’s also really great Terri, that you are leading these conversations because we’ve talked a lot about the societal norms, but they’ll only shift when we start having a different conversation about, you know, no, just because you’ve finished, paid traditional employment doesn’t mean you’re retired and it just that you choosing to do completely different things in a completely different space.

And similarly, no, you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can work in corporate and you can coach at the same time. And I think just having these conversations and normalizing this will be the start of making different choices for our children. Down the track, it sets a new example.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. And I really appreciate those comments and yeah, it really excites me to be having this conversation, to be chatting with people on the podcast about where they’ve been, where they’re going. Those turning points where you make a choice, what you decide to open things up, I think they’re important times and we have many of them in our lives and they continue. I think they’re important conversations to have. So another string you have to your very busy bow is working in self-doubt area. And you’re a self-doubt coach having graduated from Sas Petherick’s Self-belief Coaching Academy. So how does self-doubt and self-belief play out in living or embracing a self-styled life?

Janelle Wehsack: The first thing that I would say, Terri is that Sas is an absolutely incredible teacher. And so unsurprisingly working with her in that course fundamentally changed how I approached the concepts of self doubt and self belief. And in terms of coaching tools they’ve really changed the way I think about approaching these topics with my clients. Because unfortunately, oh well, it’s not unfortunate. It’s just natural, that everyone feels self-doubt at different times and different levels. The bit that is unfortunate though, is that for some of us, that self- doubt can really, really keep us stuck and it can stop us from living wholeheartedly, as you would know, it slows down self-leadership and it certainly slows down living a self-styled life.

And I think it’s really helpful to remember that any time we encounter protective behaviors like procrastination or perfectionism, it’s just our way of keeping us safe from psychological risk of things like failure, disappointment, rejection, and judgment. But in remembering that it’s also good to reflect on the fact that by not doing the things, by not following what you love, by not taking that brave step and maybe trying something brand new for the first time, you open yourself up to the same levels of feelings of failure or feelings of disappointment or judging yourself. So it becomes a cycle where whether you act, or you don’t act, you end up facing into the same risk.

Choosing to self-style your life helps you grow your self belief and your self-trust, because in taking action for the things you want, you gather a whole stack of evidence about yourself and the things you can actually do, rather than just listening to those stories that we all tell ourselves about what you can and can’t do, or even the societal stories we’ve been talking about today. And you also get to know more about you. Your own likes and dislikes. For so many of us, we’ve been almost conditioned to like what others have told us we like, and we’ve never really looked into what’s important to us.

So I think self-styling your life helps you overcome that self doubt. And at the same time, build the self-belief. So the two really do go hand in hand.

Terri Connellan: And do you think it’s something women experience, particularly that self-doubt piece? We talked about societal conditioning.

Janelle Wehsack: I think all humans experience self-doubt. It just shows up differently for different humans. I think for women it’s that there is the extra pressure, particularly I think, as any of us that have 40 or older probably came from a different era and so had different environments when we were growing up that might feed into that.

But at the end of the day, I think we all have the capacity to doubt ourselves. It’s about actually being brave enough to take a step anyway, and just build up that evidence that those psychological risks might feel really scary. But once you put yourself out there, it’s not as bad as you first thought.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s great. And I love that reminder that self-doubt looks different for different people, whether it’s from a gender perspective or even individuals. Everyone’s going to have their own brand of self-doubt. I love too that idea of gathering evidence in the face of self-doubt and it’s something I often remind my clients when I’m working with them, if there’s areas where they’re feeling uncomfortable is to just start looking at the facts.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah, there’s nothing more powerful than really questioning whether the stories you tell yourself, have any basis in fact, or there’s any factual evidence behind them. Because so often when you ask yourself the question about, well, is that true, the answers, often, more often than not, well, no, it’s not true. And it’s just a way I’ve been protecting myself from taking a step forward and things may be not going my way.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s a great way of practically tackling those limiting self beliefs that we’ve often been carrying around for many years, that just become part of how we live and breathe. Don’t they?

Janelle Wehsack: Yes they do. And that’s where I think the evidence and taking some action in the face of those things builds up that evidence of, oh, maybe it’s not true. And quite often you end up with more evidence about what you can do than what you think you can’t do. It’s just a matter of building up that filing cabinet full of evidence that says, Hmm, maybe there’s a different perspective on this.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. And speaking of different perspectives and gathering further evidence, you also have another fabulous business, life interest and website presence, which is Distant Francophile, which you mentioned early on, and that’s focused on your love of all things French and inspiring others from this.

So can you tell us about Distant Francophile and how it connects with other aspects of you and shaping a self-styled life?

Janelle Wehsack: Ah, yes, Distant Francophile. It was really my first step into exploring creativity back as I said around the time I turned 40. I’d let all of that go in my twenties and thirties and starting a little blog about France, which is a country that I simply adore back in 2014 was actually my way of establishing a writing practice.

So, I remember my son saying to me, if you’re going to start a blog, mum, you’ll need to be committed. Uh, I managed to raise you for this long, I’ll probably be able to stick to a blog for a little while. But he had a point because I think just saying that I was going to show up and write and post every week. I made that promise to myself, but I made that promise to my readers.

And so by doing that, I had to start creating and I look back at some of the early blogposts and I don’t think that they’re going to win any awards Terri at all, but, it was a place for me to just explore creativity and joy and beauty without any expectations. If nobody had ever read Distant Francophile, that was okay. I was going to show up and I was going to write and share something that I love.

And interestingly, it’s still that today, but it’s so much more and I feel like it’s almost taken on a life of its own. I would never imagine that it would introduce me to so many opportunities and amazing people. We’ve got to experience so many things in France that we wouldn’t have been able to do without the DF community.

And we talked a minute ago about those baby steps and experiments. And DF was a real place for me to experiment with all sorts of things. So. I could experiment with writing. I could experiment with recording podcast interviews. I could experiment with all sorts of different things that have then led to, or have supported me as I’ve moved into coaching and expanded in different areas.

So I would never have expected that Distant Francophile would become the jumping off point for so many other things in my life. And then interestingly, because we share a lot of my hubby Scott’s photos on Distant Francophile, there’s been a real interest in the fine art photography that we share there.

So fairly soon, Distant Francophile’s going to be a business in its own right and I’m super excited to see what the next evolution of that ends up looking like.

Terri Connellan: Hmm. That’s another beautiful story of the breadcrumbs and following the breadcrumb trails of passions and seeing where they lead. And, yeah. congratulations on your commitment. You obviously did take that advice on board and extend the success of distant Francophone. Your Instagram posts are just beautiful. Your website is stunning. And in terms of self-styled life, it really shows, you know, if you took that out of the equation, it wouldn’t be the same sort of self-styled life that you have. It gives you another dimension to style in itself and the things that you love being part of that self-styled life.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. And I think for me, it was all of the aesthetically beautiful things that I love about France was what triggered me to look into style and that then went to style coaching. And so I can’t imagine my life without Distant Francophile. It is the outlet that I can play with the pretty things and the things that just look nice just for the sheer joy of doing something that I like with that.

Terri Connellan: And I love that your creativity started as a blocker cause that’s what also happened with me because I knew I had to make more space for creativity in my life. And that was how I did it through starting a blog. I started a blog in 2010 and I remember putting that first one out in the world and just feeling so fearful.

But for me, it was about working out what I wanted to focus on, what I wanted to say, where I wanted to focus. In my ten tips for people about developing meaning and purpose in their life, blogging is actually one that I offer up as a tip because I think whether anybody reads it or not, it’s actually that beautiful way of shaping up what’s important to you, working out what you want to say, finding your own voice, plus developing skills, the amount of technical skills that I have learned through that experience that I’m applying in launching courses and podcasting. It’s also building up practically, isn’t it?

Janelle Wehsack: That was absolutely my experience of it as well, Terri. It always makes me feel a little bit sad when people say, oh the era of blogging is over and it’s like, yeah, I’m not so sure about that. And particularly for those of us who want to explore our creativity or perhaps have it on their hearts to write, but aren’t quite at the point where they’d contemplate a book or something like that, even just starting, as you say to craft your words, find your voice. I think there’s still a lot to be said about having a writing practice and the practice, as you say, with sharing it with the world, because I think we all feel like that the whole universe is going to read our first blog post or maybe our first 10 blog posts.

And then after we’ve written hundreds of blog posts, we realized that perhaps they’re not. But it still gets us used to writing and sharing. And I think that’s the powerful thing about creating and for me it created such a community. And as I said, an almost a life of its own that I would never have imagined.

Terri Connellan: It’s a beautiful thing. And again, in the podcast chat with Penelope, she gave a tip about free writing and then writing for publication and doing both. And I think that’s a really lovely way of looking at it. And blogging is a way of writing for publication, writing for audience. And I think frames up our writing in a different way to have both those lenses.

Janelle Wehsack: Yeah. I hadn’t thought about it like that, but you’re absolutely correct.

Terri Connellan: And podcasting too can be a very similar thing. So I’m sure everyone listening is wondering how do you manage all these different aspects of your fascinating and rich life Janelle? So can you share some tips about how you balance and integrate it all in practical terms?

Janelle Wehsack: I’ll give you a theoretical answer and then I’ll give you some practical ones as well. I think Terri, I think the first thing is that I’m incredibly intentional about my life and the things I bring into it because I wasn’t in my thirties. But as I’ve moved through my forties, I now choose very deliberately about what’s in my life.

I didn’t like where I was at when I had a big job and an increasingly empty nest. And I’d really prefer it if I didn’t end up back there. So as a result, I really choose where I focus my time. And right now I love investing my time into my day job and the creativity of Distant Francophile that we just talked about and supporting my clients through coaching and creating new tools and new ways of thinking for my coaching clients. And building that into my coaching practice and that blend of intellectual work, creativity and service really sparks my energy. And one of the things that I’ve noticed in both of my clients and in my corporate colleagues is that when we put all of our energy into things that don’t actually make us feel good or don’t make us excited, that’s when burnout tends to creep in especially I’ve noticed in women.

And so, if the things that I have in my life really drain me rather than fill me with excitement and vitality, I don’t have a problem anymore with putting them on the shelf. And the best example I have of that is French lessons. I did French lessons for many, many years, but the minute they started becoming a chore and not something that I thought was fun and interesting and exciting, I had no problem shelving them.

And it’s not the side that I won’t pick French up again one day. But for right now, it’s just not something that I want to spend time on. And I think being able to pick things up and put things down without feeling like you’ve got to stick with things forever, really helps with that idea of, ‘No, no, I’m going to do things that fill me with excitement and energy and I get to choose what that looks like.’ So I think that’s just the first position on being intentional and choosing what you want to do is for me how I can pack things in, because any time I choose to do anything, it’s something that I love.

So I’m either creating, or I’m playing with Distant Francophile or I’m working at my day job. And when you’re filling your life up like that, I don’t get overly tired, I think because I have all of the variety. It just seems to work really well for me because I’m choosing to do a whole lot of fun things rather than things that I feel like I should do or have to do. I think too, in the downtime of that, I’ll cook or I’ll read, or I’ll walk along the beach. I’ll still do other things as well, as long as everything is, feeling like fun. So that’s sort of the theoretical position on it.

The practical things. I’m really good with my calendar. Thirty years in corporate has taught me that my day runs by my calendar. If it says I’m going to be somewhere, I will show up. And so I do the same thing with my personal life and my calendar there. If it says I need to write for DF right now, I’ll show up and I’ll write for DF. And like, that’d be fun. But similarly, if I’m coaching I’ll coach and so I’m very good at stopping one thing and picking something else up because the calendar tells me so. And I think probably just the other thing, Terri, is that, I don’t watch telly. I don’t watch telly very often. And so I always thought that I’d rather create rather than consume. So I guess that gives me a bit more time too.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, for sure. And, I love that you mentioned how the blend of things, sparks energy. And I guess it’s back to that bringing together different strands of our life and it sounds like one sort of bounces off the other. And, back to that multifaceted gem that we’ve created in this conversation, that idea of bouncing light and energy from one thing to another. Doing a range of things that you don’t enjoy might be draining. When things spark each other and reflect aspects of each other, the story that I’m hearing from you is that it’s actually energizing.

Janelle Wehsack: It is for me. And I think I knew the difference because when it was all work and I was just filling up the time that I used to spend parenting with more work, it wasn’t like that at all. And it’s interesting that it’s a different role within the same company, but I’m still at that corporate job. But by building more things into my life and not expecting my corporate role to fulfill all of the different desires and wants that I had. So it doesn’t have to cover the creativity for me. It doesn’t have to cover service for me. By just letting it give me the leadership opportunities and the intellectual part, it took the pressure off. It made me enjoy it again.

Terri Connellan: That’s lovely. So we’ve touched on aspects of how you’ve created your story, but it is a question that I’m asking every guest of the podcast. And I’d love to hear your answer. How have you created your story over your life?

Janelle Wehsack: The short answer is that I’m still creating it, and I think that I’m going to continue to create it just one baby step at a time. And the longer answer around that is that I think just following my curiosity and heading into things in a wholehearted way. And you know how much your books have really supported my thinking when it comes to living wholeheartedly. I think just still consciously doing that and understanding that I get to choose every day. I get to write my story every day, underpins the way I’m choosing to live my life at the moment.

Terri Connellan: I love that – it’s come to this point, but we’re still creating our story as we go forward. Yeah. And it’s lovely to hear that Wholehearted has been really helpful in framing up some of that thinking too and adding to your own thinking.

And I think any body of work we put into the world, it’s lovely, the way other people can receive that work and then take it forward in new ways. So thank you for reflecting that back to me too.

Janelle Wehsack: Oh it’s, such a resonant piece of work, Terri, I think. It’s certainly one that I recommend all of my clients, you know, I think you gave the world a real gift when you published that book last year. So, there is a lot to take from it.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. I appreciate that. As you know, in Wholehearted, I share 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices. So to add to that body of work or amplify, what are your top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, especially for women.

Janelle Wehsack: Before I get to that. I said the word ‘ book’ in the singular. I think everybody needs to know that there’s two books and they’re both recommended reading on any list. You do share so many tips in the books for wholehearted self-leadership and I could go any which way with trying to pick out my favorite tips.

But I’m assuming you don’t want this to be the world’s longest podcast episode. So I I’ll start with the fact that clarity, mindset and action form the basis of my signature coaching framework, Terri. And I created that framework after I’d seen so many women either burnout or walk out and leave just so much goodness on the table behind them. And so it was a really career based thing when I started thinking about it.

But today I believe that women everywhere can tap into the benefits of clarity, mindset and action to live wholeheartedly. So my top tips would include getting clear on what you value and how you define success. I’d also suggest you spend some time thinking about how you want to spend your time.

And then when it comes to mindset, I think the place to start is catching those stories that we were talking about before and really digging into whether there is any truth in any of them, or if we have any of that evidence that we mentioned earlier. Finally, I would suggest that we take some of those safe forms of actions. So those experiments and the baby steps, we pop on our lab coats, or our imaginary lab coats, and we just go out there and try some things. And by trying the things, by following the breadcrumbs, that’s when I think we take ourselves as close to wholehearted as we can.

Terri Connellan: Oh, what a truly beautiful answer and example of clarity, how you could express that so clearly. Your signature program in your coaching around clarity, mindset and action is beautifully framed. And I think the ability to share that with people is also a real gift and something you’ve developed over time from your own experiences. So thank you for sharing that with us through your coaching and also through the conversation today.

So we’re just about at the end of our time together, and it’s been a lovely chat. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with me and it’s been fabulous exploring all the things we have chatted about together. Can you let people know where they can find out more about you and your work online?

Janelle Wehsack: Well, thanks so much, Terri and thank you for having me on today. It’s been an absolute honor and a joy.

If listeners are interested in self-styling their lives, they can find me on the interwebs at janellewehsack.com and make sure you check out the free resources that I have to help you do life your way. You’ll also find me on Instagram at @janelle.wehsack or on my new podcast, Self.Styled.Life which should be out in the wild by the time you are listening to this episode of Terri’s podcast. And if you’re after a dose of French inspiration, you can join me over at distantfrancophile.com or on Insta, where we are @DistantFrancophile.

Terri Connellan: So many places to be. It’s wonderful. And so many wonderful places for people to find out more about you and explore your work. So thank you so much for sharing so much about you and encourage people to check out your work, all the different angles and to engage with you if they feel called. It’s very important to connect with coaches and people’s work that feels resonant with you with.

Janelle Wehsack: Yes. I know for me, that’s how we’ve built such a beautiful community across a number of these online platforms. So, yeah. But like I said, Terri, thank you so much for having me on it’s such a joy.

Terri Connellan: Oh, my pleasure. All the best with your podcast. Look forward to listening.

Janelle Wehsack: Thanks again.

About Janelle Wehsack

Janelle Wehsack is a certified life and style coach and a creative writer who also happens to have 30 years experience – and counting – in the corporate world. In her coaching practice, Janelle employs her signature coaching framework that combines clarity, mindset and action to support professional women to dance with their self-doubt so that they can build tailor made, self-styled lives.

You can connect with Janelle:

Website: Janelle Wehsack.com

Website: Distant Francophile

Instagram: Janelle Wehsack

Instagram: Distant Francophile

Terri’s links to explore:

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching & writing programs:

Work with me

The Writing Road Trip – community writing program with Beth Cregan email list

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

personality and story podcast self-leadership + leadership

Personality Type Coaching and Social Media with Joe Arrigo

February 11, 2022

Helping people find their place in the world through personality type clarity.

Welcome to Episode 12 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Personality Type Coaching and Social Media.

I’m joined by Joe Arrigo, Personality Type Coach, INTJ and LinkedIn and YouTube aficionado.

We chat about Joe’s journey to psychological type and type coaching and how he shares and connects with people on social media around personality.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Joe’s journey to being a type coach
Learning type as a language
The magic of understanding your type
Personal growth as an INTJ
The power of focusing on our weaknesses
Social media and type
Being extraverted via social media as an introvert
Tips for LinkedIn
Being visible on social media

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 12 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 11 of February as I record this. I’ve been enjoying two weeks of The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge inspiring and chatting with writers over the past two weeks with my writing partner, Beth Cregan and launching The Writing Road Map short course which starts on 28 February. More on that in a moment.

I’m excited to have Joe Arrigo join us for the podcast today to chat about Personality Type Coaching and Social Media and it’s a fabulously fun and deep conversation all at the same time with two INTJs, type coaches and social media lovers chatting.

Joe Arrigo is a newbie to the professional Type space. What started as a mild interest exploded into an obsession and a coaching business. His goal is to help people find their place in the world by bringing clarity to their personality type. Joe believes that the most important aspect to self-improvement is first knowing yourself. Everything else branches out from there. If a stubborn INTJ like Joe can have a transformation due to Typology, it can certainly do the same for others. He resides primarily on Linkedin and YouTube, and tries to bridge the gap between the Old Guard and New Guard of type.

Joe and I met on LinkedIn through our love for social media and via our mutual interest in personality and psychological type, particularly through the Australian Association for Psychological Type. (AusAPT). I’ve had the pleasure of attending Joe’s session at the AusAPT 2021 Conference on being a new type coach and learnt more about his journey in psychological type and personality. But there’s so much more I didn’t know about Joe and there was so much more to explore.

Today we will be speaking about Joe’s work in personality type and coaching, the magic of understanding type as a lens and language in life, being an INTJ and understanding your type, the power of focusing on your weaknesses, social media especially LinkedIn, social media and introverts, and how to be more visible on social media.

Before we head to the conversation with Joe, I want to let you know that The Writing Road Map is now open for enrolment. My friend, writing partner and brilliant writing teacher, Beth Cregan and I are your guides for this course which kicks off on Monday 28 February. This is a 6 week intensive to plan your writing project from beginning to end and map the supports and tools that will make it happen. It’s about planning your writing journey now and getting clear on your writing project direction, terrain, scope and path, instead of wasting time on dead ends and by-roads and procrastinating. Plus you’ll enjoy community support, accountability and guidance along the way to inspire you and keep you going.

What you’ll get:

6 x 90 minute weekly Masterclasses (60 min workshop + 30 mins Q&A)
1 x 2 hour virtual writing retreat
Guidance, skills & inspiration from 2 experienced writing teachers and authors
Weekly accountability prompts and follow-up
Community support & connection including via live calls and our private Facebook Group.

Plus a second bonus 2 hour virtual writing retreat with Beth and I if you sign up by midnight Monday 14 February AEDT Sydney time. So don’t delay!

So, if writing is a priority for you in 2022 – whether it’s writing a book, blog posts, a course, family history, anything at all, join us. Head to quietwriting.net/writing-road-map

An easy way to find them is to head to quietwriting.com/podcast and click on Episode 12 for the transcript of this intro and the podcast!.

Now let’s head into the interview with the fabulous Joe Arrigo.

Transcript of interview with Joe Arrigo

Terri Connellan: Hi Joe, welcome to the Create Your Story Podcast.

Joe Arrigo: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. I just want to say upfront that I invited myself onto the show. I saw your posts on LinkedIn and I didn’t even know you had this thing going. So I was like, I absolutely need to be here. So thank you for letting me be here.

Terri Connellan: I’m so honored. That was great to receive your thought that you’d love to be on the show. I’m really excited to chat with you today. So we’ve connected around the personality, psychological type, via social media, and also through the Australian Association for Psychological Type where you joined us as a speaker at our recent conference, which was really exciting.

Plus we’re both INTJs so that’s really exciting to chat about how we see the world with similar preferences. So can you provide a brief overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do now.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. So what I usually say is that I was in film school and that I did what every film graduate does is after they go into sales because the film doesn’t work. And, so I did sales and I was like, a sales development rep and I was doing cold calls and things like that. And I was a recruiter and then COVID hit and I got furloughed and then, I was just like, maybe this MBTI obsession that I have, I should try to do something with, while I have the perfect amount of time in life to do this. I probably would never get another time in life where I get to have like commission checks still coming in, but like, they’re paying me to not be there. Maybe I can try to get this business going.

And that’s kind of the quick story of the furlough allowed me the time to start doing MBTI work. And, I always say that it’s sort of a synchronistic Carl Jungian type, like the door opened and it was a signal and it was like fate and I just said, okay, I’m going to do this thing. So that’s the very short story. I thought I was going to do a lot of corporate workshops, but I really found passion one-on-one coaching. I think it’s the more intimate, the more you get to know people more that you can really apply type. I just thought that the corporate way would be better, but it’s not as good as doing one-on-one coach.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love one-on-one coaching too. And I think that’s that ability to really engage with individuals about their story that I love.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. It’s interesting. There’s a lot of like every story is unique and I believe that for the most part, but I think that every one is a puzzle. Not to solve. I don’t want to say to solve, but there’s a unique aspect about them that I think the INTJ is really well suited for. Like helping find that missing piece or something.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s a great way to think of it. I hadn’t thought of it as a skill for an INTJ coach to help solve the puzzle of the person. I guess that’s what I do, but you’ve said that beautifully. So thank you. That’s a great insight. So just to chat further about that, personality and psychological type of key frameworks that you employ in your work. Why did you choose to specialize there and how does type help people be more whole and self-aware?

Joe Arrigo: Well, I think type is universal. It’s always applied to people since we crawled out of the ocean type has always been something that applies and doesn’t matter what time period you’re living in. It doesn’t matter what age you grew up in, type can apply. You probably agree. We like the universal things, like personality type has always evolved, but like the core of the people stay the same, but it’s always evolving slowly over time.

So it really appealed to the authenticity, my Introverted Feeling, which was, I want to do something that is real work. And I was kind of doing jobs that were selling other people’s products or stuff that people didn’t need. So that really felt inauthentic to me. I also want it to be productive. It’s funny, I say this because I’m really good at LinkedIn, but there’s a lot of people that have made a career on being a LinkedIn coach or being a LinkedIn influencer, which is to me like the last stage of just like, it’s so meta for a job, but it doesn’t really help people. Personality type and psychology is always about helping people, so I think that’s what I gravitated towards.

And to answer your question about how to help them become more self-aware I think it’s that universal shared language that Jung created. Learning type is a new language. You are learning a new language. That is the hardest part. That’s where most people get stuck. But once you learn the language, you can articulate yourself to yourself or to other people in a way that previously you were like, I’m the only one that thinks this way. There’s no one else has ever had these thoughts before. And now you’re like, wow, this is what that’s called.

I think Ni [Introverted Intuition] for me was like, oh, that is the thing that I do. But before Jung, I don’t know if people knew what that was called, that shamanistic quality, I guess. I like to say that it’s when it’s that point in life, where you go from standard definition to 4K definition where you’re like, wow, I didn’t know what I wasn’t seeing.

It’s like when you put on glasses for the first time, you’re like, how did I live my life like blind before? How did I even function? And so that’s what I got out of it. And, I think it applies to most people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love that. And I often say to people, working with personality type and understanding your type is like having an operator’s manual for your personality. So similar to what you’re saying, it’s that ability to have both the language and the framework. I often talk about frameworks to be able to make sense of…And you mentioned Ni which is that Introverted Intuition that we both share as a dominant function and certainly for me, and I know working with others, understanding what that Introverted Intuition for example is about and what it’s like and why I do what I do was just like magic. Wasn’t it?

Joe Arrigo: It is. I think all the functions have their own magic to them. I don’t know if you feel this way, but I think Introverted Thinking types are interesting to me because their capacity for deep diving into a subject or understanding that true essence of a thing is like unparalleled. But all the functions have their magic to it. I think in the community, there’s a rush to talk about Ni as if it’s like, the only one, the best one, that’s probably just like more NT types being in the community so they pump themselves up about it. But all of them are special, I think.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Just for those who are listening who don’t perhaps know about the types. There are 16 types, which you might’ve seen, the Jung/ Myers-Briggs types and we’re talking about INTJ, which we share. But as Joe has mentioned, all 16 types, all of the cognitive functions have their strengths, have their values and have their unique way of working.

And, there’s eight cognitive functions or cognitive processes, which came from Jung’s psychological type work. So, I’ll put some links in there for people who maybe want to know a little bit about that. So, I love that idea of that universal shared language. And where I really experienced that is at a type conference. And it’s the same on the internet, people who understand type, it’s just an ability to make connection as with any community where you have a shared language and shared understanding. But I think the real value for me is that it’s about personal development, personality development, understanding yourself and understanding others.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. And I’m writing something now. I don’t know where it’s going, but I’m writing something now about that’s why I value the one-on-one coaching is because it’s first about understanding yourself. And then only then can you do anything about your interpersonal relationships. So I think like presenting type to a bunch of newbies at a workshop has some utility, but you can’t get that nuanced approach that you can with a one-on-one. So I think that would be the way to go if anyone’s like here’s this podcast and wants to move forward. I would say like getting involved with a coach one-on-one is probably the best path for development, rather than a workshop or something.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I totally agree. I think the value of doing that deep inner work. And to me, it’s an ongoing thing. You start, you get your frameworks, you start to learn the language, the skills, get the insights, connect with other similar and different folks in different ways. And read the books and I think that group aspect and that interaction aspect is much stronger once you understand a bit more about yourself.

So we both have INTJ preferences as we’ve mentioned, so that’s introverted, intuitive, thinking, judging, and it is one of the rare of the types. So tell us about your personality type and the psychological insights you’ve gained over time that have helped you with self leadership and with personal growth.

Joe Arrigo: That’s so funny. People kept telling me that I had a bad memory and I was like, no, I have a good memory. I remember things. But then once I learned type and I learned the cognitive functions and I have memory for weird things, but I don’t have like a photographic memory.

So like first thing I learned was like my weaknesses, bad memory. The misunderstandings that come along with some of the jokes so that I would tell, or like the subtleties that I thought were really funny, but people didn’t understand it. I didn’t get why, what they didn’t get. And that was like part of the Extraverted Feeling that I’m not very good at.

So I learned my weaknesses and I go, okay, that’s what I have to deal with, these are my paths for growth. But some of the successes I attributed to being a pretty good thinker, extraverted thinking and taking action, being effective and not just having the wild-eyed idea, but then be like, okay, what are we going to do about it?

So I learned that, but then once you know what that’s called, then you know how to use it. If you don’t know what anything’s called, then you’re just like, assuming that you’re just walking around just like everyone else. So kind of like a zombie where you just don’t know you have no direction.

But, I think I learned that I had drive, that came out of my personality. Like I, and you probably feel this way, if you see something, you see the road very clearly, then it’s almost an inevitability that it’ll happen. As you get older, you’re just like, okay, I thought about it, I’ve planned. It. The only thing is like, when is it going to happen?

I learned that the worst thing to say to an INTJ is time is running out because like you want to accomplish all this stuff. But I learned that I had a vision that I couldn’t explain and that it wasn’t doing me any favors to try to explain something that I wasn’t really sure where all the dots were connecting or all the lines of best fit were coming together.

I thought it was funny that they would call INTJ’s a conspiracy theorist. And that’s just because the lines that connect don’t quite make a lot of sense. So I learned in my speech and when I pitch projects to people or pitch ideas, I have to be like, don’t take your crazy idea and tell them like, take the more linear approach and do it that way. So I learned that in the first one or two years of understanding myself.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I really relate to those too. As you were talking, I was thinking about how I’ve experienced similar things in my life. And one area is in leadership, for example. So I would know as a leader where I wanted to go, I could see the vision. I could see where I wanted to take people, but I really had to then break down that vision into the practicalities, the steps of, we need to do this and here’s why we need to do it. Both for myself and for other people. Because I think one thing that can happen if you’re not connected with the practicalities and tapping into the logical steps side of ourselves too, is get carried away with the vision itself. You’ll get it done, but maybe it’ll take longer because of not rooting yourself in the practicalities of it. Do you relate to that?

Joe Arrigo: I do. I do think we’re willing to try out a bunch of ideas and not be sad if they don’t work. But I do think that there is a bit of idealism that the INTJ has about how things will turn out. So I think like when Keirsey kind of put the NTs as the Rationals, I think NTs actually can be very idealistic about things too. So like, are you being practical with this idea? Like you’re going to create the first trillion dollar company? I don’t know. Joe, how do you think that’s going to happen?

Terri Connellan: The other example I thought of is when I come up with an idea, say for a group coaching program, it’s the sales page that is the hardest part for me. It’s how do I take what I know it’s going to look like, what I know is going to be great for people into language and into something that’s going to connect with people. And again, it’s tapping into that feeling and it’s almost like slowing yourself down to have a really good look at, so what is this actually going to do for people? And how can I put that into words?

Joe Arrigo: I struggle with that. I’ve struggled with this whole thing. And I talked to a lot of INTJs, NT types that for coaching, psychological type specially, personality, the ROI for our customer is not always apparent. If I’m a sales coach, I’m going to say, oh, in the next year, you’ll have a 10% better return because I’m going to write better sales scripts. Like it’s super easy to quantify that ROI. But for some people it’s like understanding yourself better isn’t a number. That you can go, like you’ll understand yourself 75% better, or you’ll have 33% better communication with your spouse. Like good luck trying to quantify that. I always go like, if people are asking, well, what am I going to get out of it? They’re not the right customer for me.

Terri Connellan: It’s funny, isn’t it? We’re talking about one particular personality type, but what we’re sharing too through how we’re talking is that this is the same, in a coaching conversation, in a one-on-one conversation, particularly using type insights, it’s clarity you can get to help you be clearer on your strengths, but also your blind spots.

Joe Arrigo: Yes. Sometimes I think just the weaknesses are better because your strengths are always going to be there. You’re just going to naturally either plateau or get a little better as you get older with your strengths, but the weaknesses are where you can have that real growth.

Sometimes, I think it’s just helpful to focus on the negatives out of the gate and manage the way forward. There’s some people that talk about balancing your functions or like doubling down. I think doubling down on your weaknesses or on strengths is good, but I don’t think you’ll balance. There’s no such thing. You’re just not going to balance like, be the same level of intensity and awareness of all of them.

Terri Connellan: I relate to what you’re saying. What I find in my coaching is I like to focus on areas for development and often it’s just one small thing which can be tweaked. Like it doesn’t have to be huge. Sue Blair’s particularly talked about how just making some minor differences, just a small tweak in some of areas which might be our weaknesses or our blind spots or our non preferences can make a huge difference to everything.

Joe Arrigo: It’s funny. It’s like you talk to, for those that know the type you can, you’ll laugh, but for those that know the ENTP, you’d be like, I think that sometimes ENTP can be a bit, you know, argumentative. They’re like, no we’re not. So it’s like, okay, you’re not even aware of that thing that you just did. So I think once you put that mirror up in front of people, they’re like, oh, I guess like everything’s a debate, even if I agree. So I think all the types have that moment, they all have it. If you’re, if you’re decent enough at coaching the model, they all have this revelation that’s life changing.

Terri Connellan: I think probably that journey we went through ourselves is exactly why we chose to get into type coaching, using type in our coaching because we saw the huge difference it made for us. So, I think the majority of us working in this field would have had that same revelatory moment.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I haven’t asked everyone about this, but I’m sure that like 99% of the people that are in type had that light bulb moment. Like there’s nothing else I can do with my life besides this now.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. For me, when I went through my transition, I made a list of my things I wanted to do to shift from the job I was in to the work that I do now. And top of that list was get skilled, more skilled in personality type. So it was right up there. So we met through social media, particularly LinkedIn, and you have a passion for social media and very active on LinkedIn. And you also have a great YouTube channel and you’ve got inspirational posts, great engagement. So interested to explore that area with you. Why do you engage so actively on social media and what do you love about it?

Joe Arrigo: I think it really gives me a chance to be more extraverted. Like there’s certainly a persona online. I do think my authenticity comes across. I’ve had many people say that I’ve met in person or just like had real intimate conversations with it. Like, oh, you’re the exact same person that is represented. So there’s not like a big change. I can just tell some people have a real difference in their persona and their real life.

And I think it’s just a good creative outlet for our type. I wasn’t really good at graphic design, but I knew that I was so jealous of people that could do it. So I learned through Canva and made some cool designs, then I started doing some memes and I’m like, I can learn this and I can expand my creative outlet, which I don’t think INTJs, are known as being very creative in the artistic sense. But I think, LinkedIn and social media gave me that outlet I would not have had before.

And then it gives me a place to reach people, possibly clients or reach people that just through normal networking I wouldn’t be able to meet. It gives me a chance to let all the vision and stuff come out and see how other people actually respond to it.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love seeing your posts and seeing how you interact with people. And I love too that you see it as a chance to be more extraverted and I think that’s true. It’s almost like being extraverted on your own terms, like choosing when you engage, choosing when to create the material, but then being able to connect with people, have the conversations you might have perhaps at a function if you were together, but asynchronistically in our terms, when it suits you, managing your energy. So, that’s an interesting perspective and I definitely agree, creativity is definitely a big one for me.

I love the creative aspect of social media. I tend to focus more on Instagram. That’s the place where I hang out. But, I love watching your LinkedIn and I think many could learn from how you bring that creativity, that engagement, and particularly memes and using video. You use video a lot too, don’t you?

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, it’s more time consuming. It gets less views and engagement on LinkedIn, but, I’m just convinced and many books have been written about this, that they see you, they see how your mannerisms are, they see how you talk, my wife is in a lot of my new videos.

So like Joe is a real person, he doesn’t have like a PR team of social media managers that are answering his emails or stuff like that. So when they’re ready to engage with me, if they’re like, oh, it’s like, this is the guy, I already know him. So that helps a lot with building trust because you need that with what we do.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And it’s just a fantastic way to connect. Connecting with people in the field, like, Dario Nardi and the guys from Personality Hackers, yourself. Authors for example, I love connecting with people who’ve written the books that I read. I just think that’s gold.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. Gosh, I really took a different path. I read a lot. I read all the books before I got really involved with the YouTube community. I’ve been kind of making my way through a lot of the books. I know that you have a book, right? Is it fiction?

Terri Connellan: Yeah, my book’s, Wholehearted, it’s nonfiction, self-leadership for women in transition, and I weave personality type into that book.

Joe Arrigo: Okay. Well, that’ll be one I’ll have to read then I’ll have to get a signed copy though. So, and I think I’ve had some luck. I’ve had some people kind of pull some strings on my behalf. I just interviewed Linda Berens, which is great. I got to interview John Beebe, Dario, of course. So yeah, those are the people that really have pioneered parts of personality type that we need that knowledge, especially as a young type coach. I wouldn’t go to YouTube right away before you have the basics, like have the real structure of it settled. So, I’ve been really fortunate to talk to those people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, and I think that ability to have conversations like this, or I know you do the LinkedIn shorts for example, have chats with people. So it’s all great ways to connect and to learn, to engage and do it on our own terms and in ways we can manage our energy as introverts particularly. So do you have any specific tips for LinkedIn given it’s a platform that operates a little differently? A lot of people in my community for example, are on Instagram and Facebook, not so much on LinkedIn and I know some people find it more challenging than other platforms. So what tips do you have for LinkedIn, for people engaging or getting into that platform?

Joe Arrigo: To come up with a consistent way that you can provide or create content. I wouldn’t say get as stringent as a content calendar, but be consistent. If you’re going to post, make yourself post a certain amount of times per week, around the same time so people get used to that. People follow you. They might not consciously know, but they’re like, Joe always posts at 7 45 Eastern time and he’s always in the morning. And so that helps to be consistent. It also makes you create content. I think consistency is better than like the absolute best content in the world. Some people say, don’t post, unless it’s fabulous content, but most LinkedIn influencers and people that have grown a decent audience will say consistency is the most important thing.

I would say have a real opinion that’s not manufactured. Commenting on the new story of the day is great, but it doesn’t provide anything new. So if you’re not going to be adding something new or unique or a new spin. Think of something, keep thinking until there’s something like, wow, that’s a unique thought.

Respond to comments. A lot of people post and then never respond to their audience. So that’s a quick way to alienate people like, oh, he’s just in it to get likes and clicks and he is not in it to actually engage. I hate when people do that. And then proactively connect with people. So don’t wait for your inbox to fill up with invites. For six months, I was only searching for people by their type on LinkedIn and a ton of people put their types. I was just doing quotes, INTJ. And I was like adding all the INTJs I could find.

And then I did ISTJ the next day. So then you can connect. Then I was doing MBTI certified. And then I was finding all the MBTI folks. So that’s how I built up the community that way. And then just mix up your content, videos, memes, texts, pictures. Don’t just be a text poster.

Some people will definitely disagree with me. I know there’s one person who’s like all text posts cause it helps algorithm. But I think seeing your face on video really is helpful even though it’s way more work. So I think those would be my tips.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, great. That’s so much value in those quick tips you’ve given us. And, I think that idea of proactively connecting, particularly around the content that you’re creating and going, seeking out connections is a really great tip and it can apply to anything, can’t it? Like if you’re in recruitment or coaching or authors for example, anything you do, you could use that same technique.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I do some side coaching on LinkedIn. I don’t advertise it, but people will just ask me if I can help. You would be so shocked at what people will put on their, About section on LinkedIn. That’s a searchable term. You could just put like, A Trak enthusiast or collector of stamps. Put that in on LinkedIn. And there’ll be like thousands of people that are into that, that you just didn’t realize they put it out there in the world. And now you have a whole new audience of people to talk to. So ridiculous search terms are the way to go.

Terri Connellan: Interesting. Yeah. I wonder if some of the challenges people have, probably people like me, is because they used it in a corporate sense in their job role. So it was more a way to say, well, here I am, here’s what I do, not that way of connecting. So it’s actually a mindset shift to see LinkedIn in a different way.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, most people aren’t their jobs. Like on their gravestone, they’re not putting digital marketer, I guarantee you they’re putting something else. So that’s a better place to connect with them is what they’re about, not what their title is and all that stuff.

Terri Connellan: Yeah and your YouTube channel is fantastic. I was just hopping in there to have a look at your latest and you had a fantastic video there about why the INTJ will end up poor and homeless, which was a great grab title about why we don’t see money as a primary focus, which I’d again, totally agree with. I’m married to an ISTJ as I know you are. And that was a great move.

Yeah. I think, again, it’s just an example on YouTube, you’re obviously doing different content, maybe some cross-fertilization, but using this specific channel in a way that’s going to reach people on that platform.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I think dynamism or being dynamic is interesting because there are more facets to people. So like I have my professional LinkedIn persona, but then I also have like a whole other field, which is YouTube, where it’s obviously a lot more informal, but it’s kind of funny but it’s still helpful because it’s still all around types as a professional use of type. And then there’s like a fun use of type. But I have booked some of my closest clients through YouTube. So you just never know what’s going to get people to be like, oh, Joe, what you said about being poor and homeless, like really resonated with me. I’d love your help. Like you never know.

Terri Connellan: That’s great. I love seeing the way you work, and there’s plenty to learn from engaging with you and connecting with you. So recommend that to folks.

Given you have so much and produced so much fabulous content and engagement, people must be wondering how much time you spend, what helps you to keep up such a regular schedule of posting and interacting. So if you could share a bit about that with us, that would be great.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. I kind of said something about like a content calendar. I don’t have a content calendar. What I have was that running idea list and now it’s muscle memory now that like I gotta post, I was like four times a week. So I have a constant note that says, make a new meme, write a new blog. Probably like 25% of my posts are not planned. They’re just spur of the moment that like that Ni lightning hits you and you’re like, I gotta do this post right now, but that’s like 10% of the time. So you can only do it if you’re passionate about the subject.

Like if you hate what you do, you will not be able to post that consistently. You’ll be so like, your soul will die a little bit each time you have to post. But for MBTI, there’s limitless possibilities.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, for sure. My problem’s often, what do I post today? Cause there’s so many ideas buzzing around, but, I like that idea of just having a running ideas list. I think sometimes too, we can over-complicate things.

Joe Arrigo: I think that people that are in situation need to just start. Just throw an idea out there. It may not do well at all. I had the same conversation with Sue Blair right after my presentation. And she did three or four really good posts that got like incredible engagement. And she was like, oh, Joe, this actually was really good. And I’m like, yeah, all you gotta to do is start. You have so much knowledge. Like, you’re basically like holding back humanity by not putting your knowledge out there.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, they were a fabulous posts. It’s just a reminder for all of us, working at our zone of genius and where we want to show up how we want to show up and what ideas we want to put together and just putting that together. So, one thing I’ve noticed is working with clients is visibility and vulnerability is something that particularly some types seem to struggle with more than others or maybe it’s individuals. So have you noticed any patterns around type or do you find it’s more an individual thing that issue of visibility and vulnerability in social media?

Joe Arrigo: Well, I do think it is a type thing. I think it’s more the F types you see engaging. So either introverted feeling types or extroverted feeling types tend to be very into vulnerability. There definitely is a shift towards mental health and the celebration of those who talk openly about mental health across the world with the pandemic, even more. So I think that those types are much more okay with being visible as someone that’s had mental health issues or struggles, or saying, ‘Hey, if you are struggling, reach out to me, I’ll help you.’ Or ‘can I help you?’ I think that is more the F type if you want to just speak broadly. F types tend to be more open with the visibility and vulnerability aspect of social media.

But you can almost see the types so clearly in a discussion, especially in argument, how some people want to argue very factually or they only post memes about facts or they actively say like, stop crying about this. Like you can clearly see the TF dichotomy so clearly, I think that’s the easiest one to see is like that dichotomy of which types are willing to be more controversial, argumentative. There’s some people that’ll just like back down from an argument and that might be more of an F type. Like they’re agreeing with everyone. They don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. So they’re like, yeah, thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Yeah, you could see that there. Do, do you see that? Let me ask you that question.

Terri Connellan: I work a lot with NF clients, INFJ, INFP, and I do notice that for some of those folks, the connection is really important, but what I see is that, it’s almost like, every post has got to be right. This connection, the feeling has gotta be right. So it’s almost too much, becomes too challenging. And I also say that that people who tend to have those types tend to be the ones saying I’ve got to step off social media. I need a break. I need some time and I’ve said that before, I very rarely feel that. To me, it’s just part of my everyday. I’ll post beautiful birds on my deck and on Instagram and I’ll share about the books I’m reading. And sometimes I’ll do much more crafted posts related to my book or my content, but social media isn’t a drain to me. So that’s one thing I see and, if people need to do that, that’s what they need to do. It’s not a criticism. It’s just an observation and everybody’s different. And certainly for me, I don’t find social media drains my energy, for example,

Joe Arrigo: There are certain times when it drains me but I do think that certain types are much more effected by what’s going on, on social media that day. Like if there’s some sort of political event or there’s some sort of social unrest, they see too many people posting negative things, they actually have physical sensations of like depression or like something will happen to them so that that’s when they’ll take the breaks, as you said, that’s a good point. That would be an interesting experiment just to get the data. You don’t need the data we know, but, yeah, that they are more likely to just take a mental health break.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s right. So I think that’s a really good observation too. So lots of different ways we all engage with social media, some of them influenced by personality, some by individuals and some by what’s coming into our feed. Interesting to have a look at those issues. So what tips would you provide for people who want to be more visible on social media and on podcasts, but find it challenging?

Joe Arrigo: I think the first thing would be to be extremely good, looking that’s number one, just kidding.

Well, like I mentioned, you really just have to find something that you could do a presentation on right now. Has to be a topic that any second of the day, you could do a speech on it, cause that means that you have enough content in your brain, that you could be visible in your niche, whatever your passion is about. So that’s the first thing you got to figure out what that is. I think that people will find it challenging are those, there are certain types of tend to have like analysis paralysis. I think the INTJ falls into this. I think a lot of thinking types might fall in this as well, where they just need to get one more search or they just need to read one more book or they need to take one more LinkedIn class before they can finally, I’ll be an expert and I can start talking about the subject.

If that is your goal, you’ll never be ready to get out there and post on social media. It’s kind of a sales technique, but give yourself like 30 days, 30, 60, 90 days, see where you’re at. You might post and get zero likes and then just get depressed and no one likes your content, but you gotta be consistent or you’ll never really know. So, I think to answer your question, start with something you could talk all day about, and then chop it up into little anecdotes or content.

Terri Connellan: Great. I love that. It’s nice and simple. And I think like a lot of things it’s just starting and learning from doing rather than trying to get it perfect. For a lot of people if we looked back on our early attempts at social media, it’d be nothing like what we’re doing now, because we’ve been on the journey. We’ve connected with more people, we’ve learnt skills along the way. So, I think encouraging people to hop in and have a go and do different things. But yeah, definitely start with what you know, where you feel comfortable’s a really good tip. So thanks for that. So a question I’m asking each of the guests on the create your story podcast is a big question, but interesting to see what comes to mind for people. How have you created your story of your lifetime?

Joe Arrigo: Man. I’m one of those people that like, every time I hear this thing about what is your story? People want to hear your story? Like, I never think it’s interesting. I’m just like, it’s really basic. There’s nothing like, people have to hear this because once they hear Joe’s story, like, oh my gosh, those people are going to be booking you like crazy. And all these book deals are going to be coming in. And, how have you created your story?

Terri Connellan: Something that’s been a real driver or a purpose, or maybe some learning that you learned early on, it’s something you can consistently provide. Some people commented, and it’s interesting looking at type is that it’s tended to be, they’ve just done what they’ve done. And then they’ve had a backwards view to see what actually worked. So is it intentional?

Joe Arrigo: I think it became intentional, like I think my story has been one of striving for intelligence, or some sort of universal knowledge that can be applied, like finding the essential truth. Recently there was a quote I saw from Tesla, who’s an INTJ and he said something like, my brain is only a receiver and that’s how I in through that, I get the secrets of the universe.

And I was like, that is exactly what I’ve been doing. Like every thing I want to do or strive for is like an essential truth or how things are, how things are all connected. So in 2020 I made a goal to read a hundred books and I read 105 and I was like, okay, that’s great. And that’s a goal that I could accomplish, put my mind to it.

But within that is like, I want to be a sponge for knowledge, because eventually I’ll take that and I’ll do something amazing. So I think that is my story arc is lifelong learning will lead to some sort of universal discovery that I can then apply to everyone. I think that’s going to be my arc. I don’t think I’m going to be a millionaire. I don’t think I’m going to be like, Forbes 40 under 40, anything like that, but I don’t think that would match the profile of me as an INTJ.

Terri Connellan: I love that idea of essential strengths, patterns, how things are connected and that idea of investing yourself in books, in learning, discovering things, that universal discovery, the patterns. Again, that’s very introverted intuiting, the patterns, how things connect and then making new connections, new insights to share with others.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah. And just to go back to the Tesla thing, I think that all the types, as dumb as it sounds at the beginning, all the types need to find a type that inspires them historically. Like Personality Database whatever you think about the site, it’s kind of funny, but it’s all user driven typing, but they’ve typed everybody from everywhere across the world. And every literature, non-fiction, fiction, like everything that can be typed has been typed. And you go to INTJ, you look at the historical figures, political figures, authors, and you read those authors books, or you read the story about like, I’m reading a book on Elon right now. I’ve read a book on Bobby Fischer. And I’m like, these guys have the same in a way mindset that I did and look what they did. So an ENFP could do the same thing with famous ENFPs, read their story, read their struggles, like, cause I believe things are cyclical. So if you can see where things are going or other ENFPs or ISFPs have been, I think that’ll be more valuable than just randomly reading books, because like they’re a top seller.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, absolutely. I did my training with Mary McGuiness, who you might know, the Australian psychological type leader, and she’s a great lover of memoir and story, and biography. And when you’re training with her and spend time with her, she’s talking about people’s stories and that’s what I’m interested in too, that idea of, as you’ve just mentioned, read the memoir, find the inspiring stories, find people, maybe like you and look at their life story and see what you can learn from it. So, that’s great advice. So the other question I’m asking folks, in my book Wholehearted, is about self-leadership for women in transition, applicable to men as well and I have 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips in there. So I’m just interested in what your top wholehearted leadership tips and practices might be, whatever that means to you. So, again, just drawing from your experience, what would you draw out as a few key tips to give to others, to help them with leading themselves through life?

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, this is a question that comes up in my coaching and I was going to mention it earlier, but, this is a perfect time for it. First thing it’s like, Fi, it’s the, what’s your values? What’s your inner compass? Most people will not admit it. They really won’t. When you say, what do you want to do? They’ll give you like some answer that’s not actually what they want to do. Because either they’re embarrassed that society would say, oh, no, you want to do that? No, that’s never going to make any money or that’s so childish or like, how are you even going to do that? So they, they just don’t tell you really what they want to do.

Like, I want to do greeting cards. I want to write greeting cards. I feel like they’re never gonna make any money. So they just don’t, they’re not honest with themselves. So then they pursue things that are like only half-heartedly into. So I would say like your north star, whatever you want to call it then once you do that, you can have passion towards actually accomplishing your goals. Like, in terms of self-leadership, it’s kind of funny because I really have been promoting the 8 Keys to Self-leadership book by Dario, which is kind of a perfect way to just open the book, look at any page and go, oh, can I do that well? Oh, I need to really ask myself this question about introverted sensing. Am I making the same mistakes a bunch or something like that?

In terms of self-leadership I was doing an interview with another INTJ and he said the first thing is make sure you’re not lying to yourself or make sure that you’re internally consistent with your beliefs. Like don’t criticize people for being overweight and drinking while you’re at a bar. You know what I mean? So I think that’d be the number one thing is don’t deceive yourself, which is why I get so upset with people when they use their title, their position, as a way to say that I don’t need to develop. I’m already the C-level person at this company. Like I’m done, but that’s just, self-deception right there.

Terri Connellan: I love that. Just starting with your values, which for some people will be quite natural and for others, it won’t be so natural. Your values I guess are pretty consistent, but they get shaped over time and you’re clear about them over time. So I think that’s great advice. And Dario’s book, 8 Keys to Self-leadership there. Dario Nardi. It’s mentioned in my book. It’s a great resource which I use a lot in my coaching as well.

And it’s that idea that it’s each of the eight cognitive processes and functions. And as you’ve said, just that ability to open it any page and have a think about, introverted thinking, extraverted feeling, where does that sit? You don’t have to have a huge knowledge of personality type to just dive in and understand more.

And Dario’s a very accessible author and based on neuroscience. So it’s a great place to start. So, yeah. Thanks for that tip too. Okay. So, that wraps up our conversation for today. It’s been a fantastic chatting with you. Where can people find more about you and your work online?

Joe Arrigo: I would say first, thank you for having me. This is really fun. I could talk double this amount of time about personality types. So could you. So thank you for having me. This has been awesome. And I really think LinkedIn is the place where I’m at the most. I respond to direct messages. You don’t need to fill out a form. It won’t take me 24 hours to get back to you. So if you want to engage, we can do LinkedIn. My YouTube channel is Ghost of Jung so I also respond to comments there, but I honestly say LinkedIn is the place to start.

Terri Connellan: Great. I’ve certainly loved connecting with you on LinkedIn, and you’re definitely a great person to engage with, your posts themselves, but also just chatting and getting to know you. And I know many people have taken that opportunity and I encourage others to do the same.

So thanks again, Joe. It’s been a real pleasure talking with you today. And yeah, I agree. We could chat all day about all these fascinating topics. But I hope what we’ve shared will be really of interest to people and gives them some tips for going further with social media, with psychological type, with thinking about themselves. So thank you. Appreciate you spending the time chatting today. Take care.

Joe Arrigo: It’s been great. Thanks Terri.

About Joe Arrigo

You can connect with Joe:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-arrigo/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/GhostofJung/videos

Calendly to book a time: https://calendly.com/advisr/30min

MailChimp (to get on Joe’s newsletter ) http://eepurl.com/htJ2XH

Terri’s links to explore:

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching, personality type & writing programs:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching a personality type course + 90 minute coaching debrief

The Writing Road Map – 6 week intensive starts 28 February with Beth Cregan

The Writing Road Trip – community writing program with Beth Cregan email list

How I fulfilled my vision to become a Personality Type Coach

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

personality and story podcast self-leadership + leadership

Leadership, Self-Awareness & Life Trails with Brian Lawrence

January 28, 2022

Insights, tools and strategies for being a more whole human.

Welcome to Episode 11 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Leadership, Self-Awareness and Life Trails.

I’m joined by Brian Lawrence, Director of Life Trails Consulting and an accomplished global facilitator, Leadership Coach, MBTI Master Practitioner and EQi Master Practitioner.

We chat about Brian’s journey to leadership coaching and facilitating and his love of working with teams and individuals on self-awareness with many tools including personality type and emotional intelligence. And his recently developed program, Dancing with Your Inner Wolves, which inspires personal growth through an innovative approach to the Jungian cognitive functions. It all focuses around how we can be a more whole human.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Self-awareness and personality type
Leadership and self-leadership
Certifications and learning frameworks
Misunderstandings about introverts
Brian’s Dancing with Your Inner Wolves program
Our 8 inner wolves and becoming holistic person
Working with cards and tactile learning
And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 11 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 28^th of January as I record this. Can you believe it’s nearly the end of January? It’s super warm here in Sydney and the water is just perfect for swimming right now. I’m busy behind the scenes preparing for The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge which kicks off next week. More on that in a moment.

I’m excited to have Brian Lawrence join us for the podcast today to chat about Leadership, Self-Awareness and Life Trails, which is the name of Brian’s business and captures the essence of his work.

Brian Lawrence is the Director of Life Trails Consulting and an accomplished global facilitator and coach. He is an MBTI Master Practitioner and EQi Master Trainer and has accredited over a thousand practitioners in 7 countries over 11 years. He has designed and led numerous programmes in team development, emotional intelligence and leadership across the globe. Brian’s clients include The Warehouse Group, The West Auckland trusts, OXFAM, The Well Connected Alliance, Roche, ASB Bank, Shell, Rio Tinto and BP. He has been a leadership coach and facilitator for 18 years.

Brian and I met via our mutual interest in psychological type, particularly through the Australian Association for Psychological Type. We share a passion for wholeness and integrating aspects of personal experience, valuing and truly knowing our strengths and identifying where we can stretch. I’ve had the pleasure of attending workshops with Brian and experiencing his excellent facilitation and experiential learning approaches including recently when I attended his Dancing with Your Inner Wolves program

Today we will be speaking about Brian’s work in leadership, personality type and coaching especially as they relate to self-awareness and becoming a more whole human.

Before we head to the conversation with Brian, I want to let you know that The Writing Road Trip Free Challenge I’m hosting with my friend, writing buddy and brilliant writing teacher, Beth Cregan kicks off on Monday 31 January with 6 free 30-minute workshops over two weeks. So, sign up for our mailing list now to get all the information. The focus of the free challenge is on Writing Identity and we aim to inspire you to start from where you to create what you desire in 2022. Plus it’s all about writing with the support of a community as we know the value of this from our own experiences. Our private Facebook is open and you can download the Challenge Workbook now. We are going to have so much fun, and you’ll be inspired to engage with your writing plans and writing self in new ways and connect with others focused on writing. So, if writing is a priority for you in 2022 – whether it’s writing a book, blog posts, a course, family history, anything at all, join us. Links are in the show notes. An easy way to find them is to head to quietwriting.com/podcast and click on Episode 11.

So now let’s head into the interview with the fascinating, skilled and inspiring Brian Lawrence.

Transcript of interview with Brian Lawrence

Terri Connellan: Hello, Brian, welcome to the Create Your Story podcast.

Brian Lawrence: Thank you, Terri. It’s great to be on.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s fantastic to talk with you today. So we’ve connected around personality and psychological type as members of the Australian Association for Psychological Type community. Can you provide an overview about your background, how you got to be where you are and the work you do?

Brian Lawrence: Sure. So I’ve been working in learning and development. I would say pretty much my entire life. So I started my career as a teacher and a trainee educational psychologist in Singapore. But found that teaching 8 to 11 year olds, wasn’t quite what I wanted to do. It was turning my hair gray very early in life. So I decided to move on and do a Master’s in Organizational Psychology in the UK and found my love of adult learning while I was doing that. It took a while to get around to that.

When I came back, I worked in user interface design within an IT company for a couple of years. And then finished that and went on to lecture at the Open University in cognitive psychology, and then discovered that I really wanted to work for myself. So I started a company doing leadership development for young people.

And initially I was using games like Dungeons and Dragons to spark creativity and leadership in young people. We ran that for a group of student leaders in Singapore. So that went on for about a year. And then I had the opportunity to be a learning development manager for the British Foreign and Commonwealth office. So they were starting up a group of regional training centers all around the world. So I was one of nine L and D managers to be recruited to start this training center up. So I ran learning and development around the Southeast Asian and Australasian region for four and a half years.

And that really cemented my love of adult development and adult learning. Along the way I trained as a coach as well, as an executive coach. So I was doing a lot of internal coaching in the organization. And then I was recruited by what then was sold to the Myers-Briggs company.

So it was a little niche consulting company called Hemisphere Consulting in Singapore. And they then became the Myers-Briggs company in Southeast Asia. So I started running Myers-Briggs certification programs back in 2008. I’d been introduced to the MBTI in 1996 and I fell in love with the concept. I really enjoy ed understanding personality type. I just never had the chance to actually use it as a practitioner until I joined the foreign office and I got certified and we started using it with teams and with employees. So when the opportunity came to actually be a Myers-Briggs practitioner and a certification trainer, I jumped at it. So I was doing that for about 11 years. Trained over a thousand people, I think across Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand, right up until, would have been 20 19, 20 18/ 20 19. So yeah.

Terri Connellan: Amazing story. It’s lovely to hear people’s life stories and how something starts as a passion or an interest like teaching and learning, and then moving into adult learning, then moving into personal development. But sounds like development of individuals, particularly to the best of their potential is a key theme in all the work that you do.

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely. I’ve tried to keep developing my interest in both personality type and other aspects of learning and development as well over the years. So I trained as a team coach last year. So my current niche is moving into team coaching and senior leadership teams. But keeping that self-awareness piece with personality type at the center of it as its foundation.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. And I can see that leadership and promoting self-awareness and authenticity in leaders is a key focus in your work. So why is that important to you and how does self-leadership relate to leadership?

Brian Lawrence: Well, I believe leadership starts from within, and it really starts with self-awareness and leaders being able to reflect on who they are, what their strengths and blind spots are, the impact that they have on their teams, their people, their organizations, understanding their deeply held values and their principles, what those are and how those impact their teams.

So I work with both individuals and teams to create those deep insights through an understanding of who they are, what their personality is. And I find that that really creates a lot of aha moments.

To give you an example. I had a group of doctors that I worked with a few years ago. And at the end of it, one of the doctors, he was in his mid fifties, I would say. And one of his biggest insights was. Oh, I didn’t realize that other people thought differently from me. I mean, can you imagine that, going through life thinking that your way of thinking is the only way of thinking and just creating those insights is a great start to creating better leaders, I think.

Terri Connellan: And that insight that the doctor had. I think that’s such a nugget for many people, isn’t it? It might not be as clearly articulated as that for some people. But I think it’s that idea that we do tend to think, why can’t you see this? It’s obvious to me that it’s like that. And it’s our own framework of seeing things is so natural for us. We just assume everybody’s the same.

Brian Lawrence: Yeah. And a lot of people, they come out of it, going I just thought everyone was stupid .And then realizing, no, they’re actually not. In fact, there was a video recorded with a mining company in Western Australia and they interviewed the mining supervisor and she actually said that I thought everyone worked for me was actually stupid. And then after doing a personality type workshop with the team realized that they actually thought very differently from her.

Terri Connellan: And that’s that realization too, that having difference can really help you both as a person and as a leader, understanding what you don’t have, understanding what the other has and taking it on. So can you provide some insights into how you work with leaders and teams on self-awareness?

Brian Lawrence: So typically I have been running workshops, so a lot of my work was around doing one day workshop around personality type to create those insights of getting people to understand what the individual types are and how that impacts the people around them, how it impacts the way in which they communicate, the way in which they lead. And I also use it as a foundation piece in my coaching work with individuals.

So I start with the Myers-Briggs or TypeCoach, to create that awareness of who they are, what their blind spots are, what their strengths are, the particular leadership style that they might adopt and how it’s seen by other people, their peers, their direct reports. Their own managers and then start to build on that. So starting with a degree of self-awareness and building on what that self-awareness then impacts for the greater team, the greater organization.

Along with that, I also do some work around emotional intelligence. So, starting with your personality, then emotional intelligence. So then maybe even doing a 360, like The Leadership Circle.

Terri Connellan: And you’ve got an amazing range of tools and frameworks in your toolkit that you can draw on for the work that you do. It’s really impressive to see.

Brian Lawrence: I’ve been collecting certifications, I think over the past 10 years.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, as an individual, everything you do helps yourself as well. It’s a framework of understanding that you have like a toolkit you can dip into whoever you’re working with to be able to apply that knowledge that can help someone shift.

Brian Lawrence: Well, one of my values is curiosity. So I think just being inwardly curious, and then being curious about people as well, I think has helped me work with leaders. So it just putting different pieces of that puzzle together. So every instrument, every tool that you use is a different piece of the puzzle. So the more, the more pieces you can put together, the better.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. It must be a great experience for the people that you work with and for yourself. I think, everything we do as a person, whether it’s develop skills, gain skills, a body of work we create helps us to create our own story, doesn’t it, as we bring it together?

Brian Lawrence: And I think almost every workshop I’ve done, every certification and program I’ve done, I’ve learned as much from the participants on the program, as I hope they have learned from me as well. So I’ve grown a lot in working with such a diverse group of people over the years.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s beautiful work to be in. So you’ve mentioned, Myers-Briggs and personality and psychological type as a key framework that you’ve been involved with both, as a framework you use and also as a trainer in that area. So why did you choose to specialize there and how does type help people to be more whole and self-aware?

Brian Lawrence: Like I said, when I first got introduced to type it, it kind of almost opened the door to a whole new world. And I found that that really resonated with me, understanding how I communicate, how I take in information, how I make decisions and what drives those decisions, where I get my energy from in particular being an introvert and understanding that, that’s okay.

Understanding that, no, I don’t want to go and party on a weekend. I’d rather stay in and watch a video or read a book and getting recharged that way. And realizing that a lot of people who were perceived differently, like me would actually take a lot of comfort from that. So understanding who they were and who they were is actually okay. It’s normal.

I think that’s one of the great strengths of understanding personality type, that who you choose to be or who you are, who you are being in the world is okay. Whoever you are and being different is being different. There’s nothing wrong with it. And conveying that to people on teams, especially where you may have a couple of team members who are always perceived to be a little different, a little quirky, you know, there’s nothing wrong with you.

You’re just living differently in the world. Not only did it open up a doorway for me, but I find that it opens up a doorway for a lot of people who start to understand personality type. And it’s such a non-threatening way of working with the team as well.

I mean, there are some personality instruments, there are some psychometric instruments that can be quite judgmental. I mean, do you really want to work with a team where you’re looking at people and saying, well, your level of neuroticism is fairly high. I mean, that’s going to shut people down immediately. Instead of that, you’re saying, you have a preference for introversion. You work with your inner world world a lot more. You’re quite selective about the energy that you put out. That’s such a nice way of actually getting people to understand their place in world.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s what I’ve found also with my personal experience. Same as you it opened a door for me as an introvert, INTJ preference woman. And I think also, as you said, it helps people realize why they might be a bit different. So for me, for example, as a thinking woman, I’m not the norm, you know, the majority. More women have a feeling orientation. So I think for individuals to realise whether it’s in the context of their personal life or in the context of a team.

For me in the workplace, I couldn’t always come up with ideas immediately in the meeting, or it might take me the whole meeting and I’d summarise everything that was said, because I could sort of think it through, but I wasn’t the person to get up and speak impromptu. That was not my forte. So I guess it’s just understanding why some things are easier and some things are harder.

Brian Lawrence: I think Susan Cain in her book Quiet sums it up perfectly. Isn’t it? I mean, a lot of people, women in particular, where it was women in the legal profession who felt that they were losing out on opportunities because they weren’t speaking up because they did have a preference for introversion and it’s such a cultural impact that being introverted has in a corporate atmosphere.

Terri Connellan: But it certainly seems like there’s a lot more awareness these days. People talk more openly about introversion and extroversion and understanding the different types. But I think it’s certainly a great framework for helping people to be more self-aware and understand others.

Brian Lawrence: I certainly think so.

I think there’s still a lot of misunderstanding around introversion. Just a few years ago I was asked, what’s your personality type? And I said, well, I’m an INTP, I have a preference for introversion. Oh, so you won’t be a very good facilitator then.And I said, well, that’s not necessarily the case. I mean, in my case, I know I’m an introvert. I know I have that preference for introversion, but I’ve always done extroverted things. I’ve been an actor. I’ve been on stage. I’ve been in televised school debates. And I enjoy being on stage and I enjoy facilitating.

So, I think that’s something that people still are yet to understand that being an introvert doesn’t mean that you are going to shy away from the spotlight. It might mean that. But it doesn’t mean you can’t do things that require a sort of an extraverted energy.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. I love that example. Very true. I think too, it’s that realization that the skills you have. In fact might make you a very good facilitator. That ability to listen, again, you don’t want to stereotype, but some of the preferences for introverted ways of working do mean that you’re going to be very skilled in that environment to pick up individuals, to listen, to reflect back what people are saying.

Yeah. So your recent work in this area is focused on Dancing with Your Inner Wolves. And I had the pleasure of attending a workshop with you recently on this, which I thoroughly enjoyed and am still thinking about. Can you tell us about the eight inner wolves that make up our personality and how we might use this framework you’ve created for insight and growth.

Brian Lawrence: Okay. The concept of your inner wolves came from my own interest in native American culture and the movie Dances with Wolves back in 1991 really struck me And a lot of what was done in the movie actually influenced the creation of my company Life Trails.

So, the old Cherokee proverb, you have two wolves within you. One is a Wolf of good, and one is a willful evil, and they’re both battling each other. And the one that gets expressed is the one that you feed. So I’ve used that analogy a lot in my work in personality type and talking about type dynamics during my MBTI certification programs, talking about your dominant function, the one that is most prominent within you. And the more you feed it, the more it’s expressed.

So, last year I was thinking about how I could expand that metaphor of the two wolves. And I felt well, it’s not necessarily just two wolves. If you took the idea of the eight cognitive functions that Jung has created and Myers has worked on. So, thinking, feeling, sensing, intuition as the four functions and then the introverted or extroverted energy being applied to each of those giving you eight possible functions or eight possible aspects of your personality. What I call the eight wolves or the eight heroes of your personality. So thinking through that, I thought it’s an interesting metaphor for personality type us having these eight wolves that live within us. But typically we’re only focused on our hero pre-dominant function, which kind of rules the roost, it rules the pack.

But then we don’t usually give ourselves access to the other seven. We typically use the first two, but not the other six. And some people only use the first one. So taking that as a metaphor I thought I’ll develop it into a program around how we could develop each of those eight wolves and get access to each of those eight wolves and become a more holistic human being. So if we could access all seven in a healthy and appropriate way, it would make us a more whole human.

Terri Connellan: I love that. And what I found too, going through the workshop with you is that I love the way you’ve taken the concepts of say, Extraverted Intuition and it’s the Explorer Wolf and how, the Healer is Introverted Feeling. So for people like myself who know the concepts of the cognitive processes and even for people who don’t, I think it makes it a really accessible way of thinking differently about those cognitive functions, maybe fleshes them out in a new way. So I love that.

Brian Lawrence: There’s other researchers who’ve chosen different animals for each of the functions as well. I know a guy in Japan, he’s American and he’s created a whole role-playing game around it. He’s used a rhinoceros and a bear and a Wolf. So there’s different ways of looking at personality and it could be really fun as well. And in just making them more accessible to people.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, exactly. And the great thing we did in that workshop too, was one identify the top, the hero, but also particularly look at one or two that we’re not using some much. So it’s that idea of stretching into our non preferred areas and just practicing. If you’re an introverted person, it tends to be an extroverted type of skill.

So for my two bottom lines, I’m just looking at mine here, were Extraverted Sensing and Extraverted Feeling. And having the opportunity, even in that short time we had in the workshop to practically think about how you might consciously, a lot of it’s about consciousness, isn’t it, being aware of these things. How you might consciously practice these cognitive ways of working in your life was really valuable.

Brian Lawrence: Yeah. So I created a series of cards that initially it was to use in the live workshop. But of course now with COVID, I’ve had to think of different ways in which to present that. So, I’m thinking about virtual cards or virtual focus cards where you can pick a card if you’re doing the workshop off a whiteboard. in a program and look at it and go, okay, this is the activity I need to do.

So, I’ve placed those activities as well on three different levels. So in an easy level one activity could be doing something as simple as observing your chair. What details do you notice about your chair? That’s the Introverted Sensing, or Extraverted Sensing part of you.

There’s also leadership cards where you take a particular Wolf and you look at how that Wolf would respond to a leadership challenge. So, there’s in total about 300 to 400 cards that you could actually access for different activities.

Terri Connellan: Wow. That’s amazing. And you have this passion for developing experiential learning products. Like you’ve just mentioned like a system of cards. So tell us a bit about how this taps into your personal approach to facilitating and learning and how you feel working with tangible things helps to foster insights.

Brian Lawrence: I think that that’s always what I’ve been interested in. As a learning and development manager, I was always looking for new ways to spark learning. I’ve developed lots of different games, activities that people can actually touch, they can use to actually discuss ideas. So one of the earliest games that I had developed was called the Mayan Pyramid. So it’s a series of 40 cards with clues on them. So, you hand those cards out to a team. They each get maybe two or three cards and they put the clues together as a team to solve a problem. In this case to solve how long this pyramid was taken to be built by a group of workers. I’ve always had that interest in tactile learning to.

And, I developed a series of cards called the Pocket Personality Cards back in 2016. And that came from me being overseas. I was in Cambodia doing a workshop for Oxfam around type and change. So we were doing an MBTI workshop. I was sitting in the hotel restaurant and the waitress brought me a menu.

But the menu, wasn’t your traditional menu. It was a series of cards. So you picked out the dish that you want. The dish was on individual cards and you went and gave it to the waitress. And I said, I want the chicken And I thought that was such a simple, elegant way of ordering a meal there. If you didn’t speak English or if you didn’t speak Cambodian, it was fine. All you needed to do is pick out the card and give it to them rather than grabbing them and pointing out that particular dish. And she would take the cards and go and give it to the chef and he would cook up the meal.

And being an Introverted Thinker, Extraverted Intuitive, that got me thinking over the next few weeks and months. And I thought well, no one’s actually developed a series of cards for personality type. Okay. That would be interesting. So I started developing the Pocket Personality Cards with little tips on how to communicate or little tips on leadership or on working with teams. So I came up with three sets of cards. So one for communication, one for teams, one for leadership.

Terri Connellan: That’s fabulous. And I love too in the workshop with the Eight Inner Wolves how even though we’re online, we were able to see the cards and use them. As you said , that makes it simple, makes it accessible. And when we think of the whole body of work around cognitive functions and even each cognitive function, there’s a huge body of work out there. Lots of information. And it’s quite technical some of it, the language is quite hard, but if you can distill it. And I’m sure for you, there’s a lot of work in distilling things down to the actual cards.That’s where your introverted thinking and extroverted intuition would come in as great skills. So in a way you’ve done the thinking for us and said well, here’s a few prompts to explore. And I think that’s what makes that work so accessible.

Brian Lawrence: And actually working with an Extraverted Thinker really helped as well. So I was working with Sue Blair and looking at all of the different activities that that I created. And she said, well, that doesn’t quite fit with Extraverted Thinking, this does. So we refined those. So having a different personality type work with you really helped as well.

Terri Connellan: I love that. Do you use other cards in your work?

Brian Lawrence: I do. I use values cards as well. I think developed by Sue Langley. So I use a lot of that in the workshops that I do. So running a leadership program, for example, I might use the personality cards in the self-awareness piece and then use a value card sort.

There’s another set of cards called Points of View which was developed by a couple of Israeli psychologists and that is just a series of pictures on different cards and use that to spark awareness and insight. I find it useful to use those cards at the end of a workshop as a sort of a visual explorer to get people to articulate what leadership now means for them at the end of all this learning.

Terri Connellan: We were just talking before we came on about Roger Pearman’s recent presentation at the AusAPT Conference earlier in November. It’s November as we speak. And he had a top list of top 10 tips if you’re working with personality type, here’s what you should do if you’re serious. And one of those was about playing with cards and playing with that idea of symbols. Wasn’t it? Yeah, it was a top wisdom tip. So it’s great to see that you’ve been doing that for a long time.

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely delighted to hear Roger say that. I say you finally validated it.

Terri Connellan: That’s what I felt too. As someone who’s written about tarot, cause I use tarot a lot and talk about it in my book. It was my absolute favorite moment of the conference. And he talked about how he used cards with executives too. Not necessarily tarot cards in that case, but similar to what you do. And, that’s what I felt that sense of validation too.

Brian Lawrence: I used to use tarot cards when I was at uni actually. So moving from tarot cards and you’ve got Carol Pearson’s Archetype cards as well. And I’ve recently signed a contract with an organization who uses Jungian Archetype cards as well. Just feed that, continue to feed that. And people like playing with things. They like the tactile nature of learning as well, rather than just sitting there and listening to someone drone on. They like getting involved.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, that’s really exciting. And it’s great to hear about how your work’s evolved too over time. It’s been fascinating to connect with you around that. Absolutely. So, can you tell us about your personality type and the psychological insights you’ve gained over time that have helped you with self-leadership and personal growth?

Brian Lawrence: So my type preference is INTP. And so I’m an Introverted Thinker, I’m an analyst and I think that’s something that I’ve always…. I haven’t struggled with it. I think I was lucky enough to have parents who encourage me to just be who I was and so I really thrived in my own skin too. I did what I wanted to do. I’ve followed my career, making sure the jobs that I sought out, the jobs that I applied to, really suited my particular personality type. It didn’t mean however that I didn’t stretch outside of that.

So running my own business, for example, when I started my company in 2015, I found that I really needed to get stronger in my introverted sensing and my extroverted sensing. So, going through accounts on a weekly basis, looking at budgets, looking at scheduling. I now use a bullet journal. So I make lists of things that I need to do. That’s very introverted sensing, that’s very traditionalist.

So learning about how I can flex into those other aspects or those other wolves has really helped me grow into myself. I think my greatest challenges are Extraverted Feeling and Introverted Feeling. So Extroverted Feeling’s my fourth function and Introverted Feeling’s my eighth function. So getting to understand the opposite side of me, to get to understand my shadow has really been quite challenging and quite eyeopening.

Terri Connellan: And did you find, as I did that stretching into that opposite is a real source of growth as you get older, particularly in midlife?

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely. And being married to an introverted feeler helps as well because you really then understand the opposite in a safe environment. And I think I bring out my extraverted feeling quite a bit in my workshops as well. I’ve been told by some of my participants, that they think I might be an extroverted feeler and definitely not. I’m glad that I’m showing some of that.

Terri Connellan: I found it very warm being in your workshop, even online with all of us all around the world. So, yeah it’s great for us to stretch into and take our strengths forward in new ways. Because when we blend that strength with what’s not so natural for us, often we can really weave some magic, can’t we?

Brian Lawrence: Absolutely.

Terri Connellan: So a question I ask all guests on the Create Your Story podcast is how have you created your story over your life time?

Brian Lawrence: That’s a good question. I think I’ve let it unfold naturally. And I’ll have to say, trust in the universe to give you what you need rather than what you want. And my wife believes very strongly in the law of attraction. I’m coming around to it, but I found that it actually has worked quite well.

For example, back when I was in the army for two and a half years and I just finished. It was my last day in the army. I had no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life. Hadn’t had an offer to a university yet. And the day I left, I sort of, well, okay. I’ll see what happens. And a friend of mine calls me out of the blue and says, there’s this university that’s doing interviews. Do you want to come down? I said, okay. And I went and I got offered a place at university and then that chapter, that trail of my life kind of unfolded.

So your life is a series of decisions that you make. And each decision you make gives rise to another part of your trail. So your trail kind of unfolds as you go along.

And that’s what’s happened to me as well. Moving to New Zealand was almost on the spur moment. We were on holiday in Ireland, in Spain, and we came back and my wife said, you know, I think we’ve got to move. And I said, yeah, where do you want to go? And she said, well, how about New Zealand? Oh, okay. The following year we were in New Zealand and I was wanting to start a company. I wasn’t sure what exactly I was going to do, should I apply for another job? And she said, well, why don’t you write it down, write down what you want, put it away and see what happens.

So I wrote down, I want to start a company by the middle of the year 2015. I put it in an envelope, put it away. By the middle of the year, I’d started my company. So I think letting your life unfold, but also stating what you want, is really important.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I love that. And I think that idea of being intentional and I found a similar thing. I write my goals down for a quarter and be conscious of them, but sometimes forget exactly what I thought I would do. And then I went back and the podcast was one, and I think I had create the podcast kickoff in November. And I’d forgotten and that’s exactly what happened. Yeah. So I think it’s that combination, as you said, that unfolding and I love that your company is called Life Trails Consulting

Brian Lawrence: And it’s similar to your book as well with the spiral. And, I use the spiral in my company logo as well, and that came to me, on my trip to Ireland. I actually had this, you know, in the hour before you wake up and you’re sort of half awake and half asleep, I had this vision of a spiral and I didn’t know why. And I came downstairs to the breakfast table and I started drawing out all these spirals and thinking, okay, we’re talking about trails, we’re talking about life unfolding. And that particular day our friends were taking us to these burial mounds just outside of Dublin and on every burial mound, guess what was inscribed? The spiral.

So it was, it’s kind of mystical and the whole idea of spiral is a trail, but spiraling back to where you were and looking at the patterns that have got you there and whether or not you break out of that spiral sometimes and find a different path.

Terri Connellan: For me the spiral’s about those things, but also about revisiting, like relearning, learning more and to relate it to psychological type too is that we’re often repeating similar patterns. We’re working on our strengths. We’re still having trouble with those things that are a bit pesky for us that we can’t sort out. And we will often find ourselves having the same arguments, butting up against the same situation.

Brian Lawrence: And looking at your limiting beliefs as well.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, exactly. So all those things that come together to make that journey, which obviously we both see in a spiraling evolving, unfolding way.

Brian Lawrence: I’d love to get a hold of your book as well as a gift, actually.

Terri Connellan: Okay. Yeah. We can send you the links cause yeah, it’s available.

Brian Lawrence: Because I know someone I’d like to get it as a gift.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. Quite a few people have bought it as a gift for people. And I really love that. I think it’s that idea that people can see that there’s somebody, you know, either in a time of transition, or someone who needs to reflect deeply on that time. So I look forward to sharing it with you. The book has 15 wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, so that’s a toolkit that I’ve developed based on my experiences. But I love to ask others to add to this toolkit we can all access what your top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices would be.

Brian Lawrence: Be comfortable with your own skin. Be grateful every day. Understand that you can be more powerful than you think you are. And there’s this resonant power within you that if you just unlock it, you could do anything. I think those are things that I’ve learned over time. Don’t hold yourself back, speak your truth into the world.

Terri Connellan: I love that. And I think that taps into sometimes what we see on social media where we tend to see other people as experts and, you know, there’s a time for learning. But I’ve heard of procrasti-learning to where people can just keep learning but don’t own their own learning. And writing my book for me was the time of owning my learning. Is that how you, you see it too?

Brian Lawrence: That must’ve been such a growth experience though. I mean, I’ve been listening to your podcast and waking up at five in the morning and writing for 20 minutes and then having a chat and writing again, that takes a lot of discipline.

Terri Connellan: Oh, it does. Yeah. It takes a huge amount of discipline. It’s a long haul creative journey too that whole idea of writing a book. But just as you said with your being comfortable in your own skin, Owning your own stories, that unfolding you talked about, you know, it’s very much a book about unfolding through a time of major change. So, yeah, it’s certainly a big growth journey, but something that’s been really powerful for me to do exactly what you just said, which is own my own knowledge and my own learning and step into my own space as someone who can speak about transition in a meaningful way for others to help them.

Brian Lawrence: Are there more books on the way?

Terri Connellan: There’s one in draft at the moment. So, as part of the work that I did, I asked other women to tell their stories. So there’s about 24 stories that I’ve gathered over time. Partly because I was a bit tired of hearing my own voice. I wanted to hear other people’s voices. So I’ve gathered those voices together and I’m looking to publish that as another book. I went back to those stories when I was writing the book to hear how other people were negotiating similar things. And things like intuition came up time and time again, particularly when people were at a crossroads. It’s particularly then, and when challenging things happen that people start to really listen within or they actually hear voices.

Brian Lawrence: It’s a crucible moment.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. So that piece of work is something I’d like to bring into the world because I think those stories really amplify what it means to be wholehearted in different ways and they’re all different personalities of course so you get to see different aspects.

Brian Lawrence: I’ll look forward to that.

Terri Connellan: Thank you. So thanks so much for being part of the podcast Brian sharing about your story. It’s been fascinating to learn more about you and I hope many of those ideas that were shared will inspire others in different ways or spark some thoughts and some trails to go down for themselves.

So where can people find out more about you and your work on this?

Brian Lawrence: Well, first of all, thank you Terri for having me on your podcast, it’s been really exciting. It’s been really fun talking to you and learning about your own journey as well through the book. So if people want to find out more about me or the inner wolves, my email is brian@lifetrails.co.nz or you can go to my website, www.lifetrails.co.nz. I have a Facebook page as well, Life Trails Consulting. And I think I’ll be starting off a separate Facebook page for the Inner Wolves soon.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. Yeah, we can pop those links in the show notes so people can head off and explore a bit about the inner wolves cause I’ve found it really fascinating and personally inspiring. So thanks again. Great to chat.

About Brian Lawrence

You can connect with Brian:

Website: Life Trails Consulting

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Lifetrailsconsulting

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlaw/

Email: brian@lifetrails.co.nz

Links to explore:

My books:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching & programs:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching

The Writing Road Trip – a community program with Beth Cregan – kicking off Jan 2022

Connect on social media

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

Books self-leadership + leadership writing

Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club

December 8, 2021

The Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club next gathers together to take a deep year-long read together of Wholehearted and the Companion Workbook in December 2022! So get on the waitlist so you don’t miss out! Here’s why I created it, what it is, how it works, how to access it and why you might want to.

About me and my Wholehearted books

I’m Terri Connellan – an author, creative transition coach and personality type practitioner.

I wrote two books Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition and the Wholehearted Companion Workbook over 4.5 years as I went through a major life transition. Shifting from long-term government employee of 30+ years, I now enjoy a more creative life focused around writing, coaching, personality type, wellbeing and inspiring others.

My books written from the midst of transition, share the journey and the learning on the way to inspire your creative transition. The books chose me if you like because of the particular set of experiences I’ve been through and learned from that enabled me to write and share my story with heart.

I know how uncertain it seems, how lost and alone we can feel, when making major change. So I share my experiences to support you to be more wholehearted and shape the self-leadership skills to create what you desire.

Photo by Samantha Burns of the @MaianbarBeachCafe

The why of Wholehearted

The WHY of Wholehearted is to support women to develop the self-leadership skills to live more creative, wholehearted lives.

This WHY helped me to make sense and structure what was happening into something useful for myself and for others from this time of major change. And I offer this learning to you to help you shift to what is more positive to you.

If you haven’t read or bought Wholehearted yet, you can download Chapter 1 for free. This also provides an overview of the contents pages so you can see what’s in the book as a whole.

It was always my dream and desire to create support and a space for discussion about transitions people are going through based on the insights of the books. That’s why I’ve created the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club for a year-long read of the books together.

So why a book club to support you in transition?

So you might be asking, why a book club to support me as I contemplate or go through change?

If you are going through a major change in your life, you’ll know it can feel VERY destabilising! The transitions can be many and varied such as:

job change
retirement
redundancy
retrenchment
wanting to write a book
making space for creativity
making art more central in your life
working for yourself instead of others
tree change
sea change
moving house
becoming an author
stepping into a new phase of creativity or writing or art
kids leaving home
relationship change
leaving paid employment
learning new skills you want to shape a business or practice around

And so much more. You might not even know exactly what it is but that where you are is not where you want to be.

Navigating change can take time and leave us feeling lonely at times as we re-create a new identity. Our networks might change. We are building on the foundations of what we have already created and working with our personality strengths in new ways which is positive but takes work. It is often about how we have defined ourselves so it means looking at ourselves in new ways.

So the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club is a way of processing all of these experiences in a structured, supported way. Wholehearted is full of rich insights and resources! It’s the wisdom of a lifetime distilled. People are telling me they are savouring it, meandering, going down side tracks, reading other books mentioned within its pages. And that is exactly what I envisaged the reading experience to be like: something we carve out time for. It is a practical book above all; that’s why there’s an accompanying Wholehearted Companion Workbook.

About the Book Club + how to join in

So yes, it’s a book club, because book clubs are an awesome way to reflect and connect around reading. But it’s also a community/group coaching program with 90-minute monthly live calls with me as your coach asking questions to prompt growth, support you in transition and creativity, suggesting just the right resources, and guiding you to the best outcomes. Plus you get to learn from others, tap into my experiences of transition and writing the books and ask me anything you want!

We’ll work through the book and workbook one section at at time in a deep, guided read you can apply immediately in your life. So whatever change is happening (or not happening) for you, I hope you’ll join me in the book club.

This is a cost-effective way to get coaching guidance and commit to change with support and community. There is a monthly payment plan and an annual upfront one where you can save as well as 50% scholarship options for Black Indigenous Women of Colour, women with disabilities and LGBQT women and non binary people to encourage participation and equity. Apply here for to be considered for the scholarship option.

So head to the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club enrolment and info page to find out more and join us. And join the waitlist to be the first to know when enrolment is open for our December 2022 into 2023 start!

Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club waitlist for Dec 2022 into 2023

I hope you will join me and the community of women that is gathering. You can DM me on social media too if you have any questions.

Want to read more?

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Wholehearted Reader Praise

Wholehearted Book Walk-through

Wholehearted Virtual Book Launch 1

Wholehearted Virtual Book Launch 2

Wholehearted Book Club Notes – generic Book Club notes, but they give you an idea of what we will cover over the year!

Books self-leadership + leadership

Wholehearted book walkthrough step by step

August 4, 2021

Welcome to a Wholehearted Book Walkthrough. Here I step you through the chapters and journey of reading my book Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition. I also welcome questions via the comments. You can also watch the video on Youtube with subtitles if that is your preference or it’s easier for you. It’s also at the bottom of this post.

When you pre-order Wholehearted, you can get a copy of Chapter 1 so you can begin reading now. This includes the Contents pages and Foreword, an original and a glimpse of the tarot cards that feature in Wholehearted. That way you can get an overview of the reading journey of Wholehearted and what it offers you. After you’ve purchased the book or books, go to the Wholehearted book page. Pop your details in on that page and it will be with you in no time.

Or I’ve popped the forms at the bottom of this post to make it easier for you if you’ve already purchased!

Copy of the book Wholehearted and the Companion Workbook against a sunrise pink background.

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: the high level

You come into Wholehearted with an introduction into the story of transition via a poem, two key tarot cards, the Foreword and the contents pages. From this, you gain an insight into what is coming and get an overview of the Wholehearted reading journey.

The books is in three parts:

Part 1 My Wholehearted Journey – covers Sections 1 to 5 where I share my experiences of making the shift from long-term government employee to a more wholehearted, self-sustaining, creative life. The essence of this transition was about getting back to what is important in the day to day. I explore the positives and challenges of this experience, what helped me and what I learnt over time. Through-out this section and the book I provide practical tips to help you with making positive transitions.

Part 2 Wholehearted Self-leadership Skills – Sections 6 to 8 is where I bring together the Wholehearted Self-leadership skills I’ve learnt on the journey and share them with you to help your own transition and transformation to what is important to you.

Part 3 Bringing it all together – Sections 9 to 10 is where I take a more high-level view of how living a more wholehearted life comes together. I share what I’ve experienced, the markers, what arrives in the wake of transition and the choices we have. This section conveys what self-leadership looks like when you bring the skills together.

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: I My Wholehearted Journey

To step you through in more detail, here’s an overview of what is in Part I My Wholehearted Journey:

Section 1 Beginning the Journey takes you into the heart of my transition journey. I share the key turning point and how this was coming for a long time as big changes often do. There is a tough moment when I knew this transition was really on. I explore how I rebuilt my life step by step via Quiet Writing, blogging, finding a voice and new purpose and the beginning of an alternative path. We look at transition and turning points and how self-leadership became so important in my life and what it offers you.

Section 2 is about Imagining Another Way. I chart the course of the transition in practical terms and the stepping stones and lighthouses that helped in initial stages. This includes looking at the role of hard inner work, showing up for ourselves and how self-talk affects us as we make our journey.

Section 3 Identifying your Passions and What you Love explains how tapping into your passions and uniqueness is a valuable guide to a new life. This is especially important as we re-orient ourselves to living differently.

Section 4 is Identifying your Natural Gifts, Style and Desires. Here we look at your personality preferences and how embracing your natural strengths and gifts is a powerful guide for transition. We look at defining your style and personality in different ways and how tapping into what you desire to feel offers a compass.

Section 5 rounds off Part 1 and focuses on Identifying your Body of Work and Resources Over Time. When making a significant transition, we can often leave pieces of ourselves behind. So it’s vital to look at your body of work and the resources you’ve built up to move forward in ways that are meaningful to you.

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: II Wholehearted Self-leadership Skills

Section 6 is the largest section of the book and the heart of it. Here I walk you through 15 Wholehearted Self-leadership skills that have been pivotal in my transition. I share these skills to support your own change-making and transformation journey. These practices, mindsets and skills are the foundation and backbone of my transition day in, day out.

They include:

6.1 Setting powerful heartfelt intentions
6.2 Writing as daily practice
6.10 Tuning into intuition and listening within

I explain how these practices helped me and why and how I honed them and continue to hone them over time.

Section 7 is about Valuing and Building Influences and Connections. I explore the value of influences and honouring what brought you to this point via five of my creative mentors. These mentors have been an immense influence, particularly in the early stages of my transformation in tough times. I unpack what I learnt from each of them as role models. And I talk about the importance of community and support as we make change. Often this is something we need to do in new ways including online.

Section 8 is Working with the Shadow Side in Becoming Whole. Here we traverse some of the darker, shadowy sides of life and our personality. We look at the less preferred areas of our personality, our weaknesses, our inferior function, grief, unrequited love, envy and comparisonitis. Just as we need light and shade in our gardens, and have the lighter and darker cycles of the moon, we need to embrace ourselves fully. It’s helpful to look at the shadow aspects of our life and personality as a force for good. We learn from them. Making these shadow aspects more conscious is some of the most powerfully transformative whole-making work we can do.

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: III Bringing it all together

Part III is where we bring it all together.

Chapter 9 looks at Guides for the Wholehearted Path and two key aspects: synchronicity and grounding in the practical and every day.

Chapter 10 is the final chapter and looks at Self-leadership and Love as the heart of Wholeheartedness. It looks particularly at the role of choice and love in our wholehearted self-leadership journey.

There is a wealth of information and resources in the end matter too, with extensive endnotes and key references for further reading and exploration.

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

The Wholehearted Companion Workbook tracks along each of the chapters of the book, providing further application and examples. It provides the opportunity to apply the learning to your own circumstances in a supported self-coaching way. I also share more about my own experiences as an example to help prompt your own thinking.

I hope this walk through of Wholehearted helps you to see the rich reading and transformation experience that awaits.

Head over to the advance praise for Wholehearted from early readers as another insight to the reading experience the book offers.

Links to pre-order Wholehearted are on on my website. You can purchase Wholehearted at Booktopia, Amazon (all territories), Kobo, Apple iBooks, indiebound.org and Bookshop.org. Both books are available at discounted pre-order prices in paperback and ebook!

Once you’ve pre-ordered, don’t forget to come back and add your details to get Chapter 1. You can also join me for a live Masterclass on the 15 Wholehearted Self-leadership skills if you pre-order two or more books. You can do this below.

I hope that’s helpful! Thanks for reading and/or watching and listening. Welcome any further questions or comments!

Thank you for joining me on this Wholehearted journey. I hope the books can support you on your self-leadership transition journey to a more wholehearted and fulfilling life. Whatever that means for you!

Wholehearted Book Walkthrough on video with subtitles

Here’s the video with subtitles if you want to watch:

Here is the form to complete to get Chapter 1 if you’ve already purchased one book:

Here is the form to complete to get Chapter 1 now + an invitation to a live Masterclass on ’15 Wholehearted Self-leadership Skills to Change your Life’ if you’ve purchased 2 or more books:

self-leadership + leadership

Self-leadership as the most authentic heart of leadership

January 12, 2021

A review of Lead Yourself First: Inspiring Leadership Through Solitude, Raymond M Kethledge and Michael S. Erwin, Bloomsbury Publishing, 2017.

Leading yourself first, self-leadership and solitude in leadership

The value of solitude is a critical but often overlooked component of leadership success. Finding quiet space in leadership roles is challenging and even more so with the expectations of constant connectivity.

‘Lead Yourself First: Inspiring Leadership Through Solitude’, by Raymond M Kethledge and Michael S Erwin, focuses on solitude as an essential practice for effective, high level leadership. Its central thesis is that to lead effectively, you must practise self-leadership and lead yourself first.

Leadership as a quiet journey

My own journey as a leader has a search for solitude as a central piece. When I was invited to speak to a group of emerging leaders, I chose as my topic ‘Leadership: a quiet journey’. I spoke about what I’d learned from my leadership experiences as an INTJ and introvert at the extreme of the spectrum. In this, I drew on learning and evidence from Quiet by Susan Cain and Quiet Influence by Jennifer Kahnweiler.

From experience, I had come to understand the value of making space and time in my day for deep, focused thought. I realised that my skill in writing was just as effective a leadership strategy as speaking, if not moreso. I had learnt most about leadership when I had no direct line management of people and it was all about self-leadership.

Being quiet, writing, reading books and seeking solitude felt like a curious thing to be talking about in terms of leadership. My discomfort made me realise that my experience was not a subject that was commonly talked about.

The challenges of finding solitude in leadership

Whilst those who are naturally quiet will likely be seeking solitude spaces in their leadership days, the challenges working against it are increasing. The impact of technology and the expectations of always being available make closing the door, going for a walk or putting an hour aside to think all hard things to justify. Technology and social media contexts create another layer for leaders as they work through the sheer amount of information and people-contact generated. It also promotes the perception of being contactable across all levels of the organisation.

The reality is that, now more than ever, all people regardless of their personality preferences, need to create the space for deep thought and reflection to enable high-level leadership practices. We need the discipline to unplug and connect with ourselves and the larger vision and purpose of our work. We need to be aware of what we are losing by not making this space in our days.

Solitude, self-leadership and leadership qualities

With ‘Lead Yourself First’, Kethledge and Erwin build on the work of Susan Cain and others, extending the context of valuing quiet strengths into the critical difference that practising self-leadership and solitude in leadership can make for all personality types.

Through research, case-studies and interviews with inspiring leaders, the authors make a strong case for establishing the discipline of leadership solitude. They create a space where leadership and solitude can be talked about together more comfortably. In addition, they provide a qualitative evidence base for this. Most importantly, they provide practical strategies for creating solitude to enable strong self-leadership and through this, the effective leadership of others.

Kethledge and Erwin focus on four leadership qualities that solitude enhances:

clarity
creativity
emotional balance and
moral courage.

Their analysis of each of these qualities is through stories of how leaders have accessed solitude. For example, you can find clarity through both analytical clarity and intuition as shown in contrasting case studies of how Dwight Eisenhower and Jane Goodall honed their leadership skills in different contexts.

The discipline and practice of solitude

According to Kethledge and Erwin, you can develop the discipline of developing a practice of quiet leadership solitude in two key ways. Firstly, building ‘pockets of solitude’ into your life in a systematic way and secondly, maximising any unexpected solitude opportunities.

These two disciplines weave through the case study and interview stories. Leaders create spaces of self-leadership and solitude in their lives in many ways. These include: running, swimming, walking, writing, tractor driving, reading, going to church and driving. Taking the Viktor Frankl maxim that there is a space between every stimulus and response, the leaders describe how they consistently create and commit to this space to develop considered responses.

Co-author and extrovert Michael Erwin, in his leadership role as an Intelligence Officer in combat zones, regularly went for long runs in 100 plus degree heat in the desert to clear his head and focus on his leadership decisions. Winston Churchill laid bricks as a way of creating a ‘personal bubble of quiet’.

The ability to recognise and make use of unexpected opportunities for solitude is also an art to practice. Events like unexpected life changes, flight delays and cancelled appointments are all potential opportunities for solitude and quiet work. The pandemic environment of covid has created more quiet, alone and creative time for some people with unexpected opportunities of working from home.

Effective leadership solitude practice

The book describes effective leadership solitude practices through a series of case studies and interviews drawn from a range of contexts. These include military strategy, politics, education, religious and civil rights, scientific discovery and the corporate world. This is valuable for seeing the universal golden threads of solitude and self-leadership and its empowering capacities for leaders.

Examples of solitude self-leadership practice include:

Writing as clarifying reflection and strategic practice:

Thinking by writing is an underrated strategic and self-leadership skill; however, it has great power to connect thoughts and generate new perspectives. Dwight Eisenhower used the strategy of writing memos to himself as a way of clearing his mind. As he described it: ‘I’m just collecting my thoughts in a structured way.’ (p7).

Winston Churchill, a serious and committed writer, commenced his writing work at 11 pm. The practice was a way of focusing his thoughts and gaining historical perspective. The power of writing gave him the ability to speak with courage and authority as reflected in his speeches of the time.

Moral courage and seeing solitude as a first principle:

Brene Brown says in her interview that the biggest mistake can be seeing solitude as a luxury. She stresses the need for it as a first principle. Whilst the social pressures to resist solitude are ever present, the courage required is worth it. As Kethledge and Erwin reinforce, solitude is ‘not the reward for great leadership but the path to it.’ (p138)

Choosing to reclaim solitude in leadership

The authors encourage readers to reclaim solitude in leadership. They provide suggestions for practical change for creating leadership solitude in contemporary times. The first and most encompassing is to reset the explicit expectations around how you plan to work differently.

Strategies include: identifying a certain number of ‘no meeting’ days a month; setting aside time to think as an identified part of the day; setting a policy of no email communication over the weekend; and more explicitly talking about the need for solitude in the workplace.

Finding physical solitude havens such as the workplace library or other quiet locations is a suggested strategy. Working from home is an option we can all hopefully explore more in current times. Identifying the life activities that help achieve the leadership qualities needed is also highlighted. This includes meditation for emotional balance, journal writing for clarity or movement for mental stillness.

Like the feelings I experienced in speaking to emerging leaders about my quiet leadership journey, we may initially feel uncomfortable in talking about solitude practices or acting on them. They may be challenging for others or we may risk being seen as non-conformist. The authors highlight that the greater consequence is a loss of priorities as we drown in lack of focus.

Contribution to solitude in leadership

‘Lead Yourself First’ is a valuable contribution to the field of leadership and to the subject of quiet influence. Susan Cain’s book, Quiet, helped make being an introvert easier to understand and talk about. I hope this book makes it easier for leaders to carve solitude into their days and to speak about it.

The experience of reading this book was, in itself, one of intense reflective solitude on my own practices. It is one I encourage you to engage in also to consider your own self-leadership practices whether you are a leader or not. I hope this book leads to people focusing on the higher purposes of leadership and to practising self-leadership, in contrast to the moment to moment response to the latest email or crisis.

As David Whyte reminds us in Crossing the Unknown Sea: Work as a Pilgrimage of Identity:

‘Our bodies and our personalities are vessels, and leadership, like captaincy, is a full inhabitation of the vessel.’

We can all only benefit from that fuller inhabitation that such moments of solitude and self-leadership provide.

Author note

This post was originally a guest post for WorkSearch published on their site in 2017. As their site is no longer live, it is reproduced here with amendments to reflect current times. Thanks to Bree Rackley for social media and guest posting support for the initial guest posting.

It’s fascinating how this post written a few years ago now resonates so strongly as many deal with increased solitude and quiet away from workplace environments. I hope these insights are helpful to see the opportunities for solitude and self-leadership where we can in challenging times.

Warmest wishes

Terri

About the author

Terri Connellan is a Sydney-based certified life coach, author and psychological type practitioner accredited in the Majors Personality Type Inventory™ and Majors PT-Elements™. She has a Master of Arts in Language and Literacy, two teaching qualifications and a successful 30-year career as a teacher of reading and writing and a leader in adult vocational education. Her coaching and writing focus on three elements—creativity, personality and self-leadership—especially for women in transition to a life with deeper purpose. Terri works with women globally through her creative business, Quiet Writing, encouraging deeper self-understanding of body of work, creativity and psychological type for more wholehearted and fulfilling lives. Her book ‘Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition’ will be published in 2021 by the kind press.

Book your Self-leadership Discovery Call with Terri here.

self-leadership + leadership

Styling a life on your terms with what you love and self-belief guiding the way.

Show Notes

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Transcript of interview with Janelle Wehsack

So I love that self-styling and self-leadership can be two different ways of looking at one particular, or many-faceted, a gem comes to mind, something that reflects different angles.

And similarly, no, you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can work in corporate and you can coach at the same time. And I think just having these conversations and normalizing this will be the start of making different choices for our children. Down the track, it sets a new example.

About Janelle Wehsack

Terri’s links to explore:

My books:

Free resources:

My coaching & writing programs:

Connect on social media

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Helping people find their place in the world through personality type clarity.

Show Notes

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Transcript of interview with Joe Arrigo

Joe Arrigo: Yes. Sometimes I think just the weaknesses are better because your strengths are always going to be there. You’re just going to naturally either plateau or get a little better as you get older with your strengths, but the weaknesses are where you can have that real growth.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, it’s more time consuming. It gets less views and engagement on LinkedIn, but, I’m just convinced and many books have been written about this, that they see you, they see how your mannerisms are, they see how you talk, my wife is in a lot of my new videos.

Joe Arrigo: Yeah, most people aren’t their jobs. Like on their gravestone, they’re not putting digital marketer, I guarantee you they’re putting something else. So that’s a better place to connect with them is what they’re about, not what their title is and all that stuff.

About Joe Arrigo

Terri’s links to explore:

My books:

Free resources:

My coaching, personality type & writing programs:

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Insights, tools and strategies for being a more whole human.

Show Notes

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Transcript of interview with Brian Lawrence

So I work with both individuals and teams to create those deep insights through an understanding of who they are, what their personality is. And I find that that really creates a lot of aha moments.

You’re just living differently in the world. Not only did it open up a doorway for me, but I find that it opens up a doorway for a lot of people who start to understand personality type. And it’s such a non-threatening way of working with the team as well.

There’s also leadership cards where you take a particular Wolf and you look at how that Wolf would respond to a leadership challenge. So, there’s in total about 300 to 400 cards that you could actually access for different activities.

Brian Lawrence: I do. I use values cards as well. I think developed by Sue Langley. So I use a lot of that in the workshops that I do. So running a leadership program, for example, I might use the personality cards in the self-awareness piece and then use a value card sort.

So your life is a series of decisions that you make. And each decision you make gives rise to another part of your trail. So your trail kind of unfolds as you go along.

So it was, it’s kind of mystical and the whole idea of spiral is a trail, but spiraling back to where you were and looking at the patterns that have got you there and whether or not you break out of that spiral sometimes and find a different path.

About Brian Lawrence

Links to explore:

My books:

Free resources:

My coaching & programs:

Connect on social media

Share this:

Like this:

About me and my Wholehearted books

The why of Wholehearted

So why a book club to support you in transition?

About the Book Club + how to join in

Want to read more?

Share this:

Like this:

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: the high level

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: I My Wholehearted Journey

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: II Wholehearted Self-leadership Skills

Wholehearted Book walkthrough: III Bringing it all together

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Wholehearted Book Walkthrough on video with subtitles

Share this:

Like this:

Leading yourself first, self-leadership and solitude in leadership

Leadership as a quiet journey

The challenges of finding solitude in leadership

Solitude, self-leadership and leadership qualities

The discipline and practice of solitude

Effective leadership solitude practice

Writing as clarifying reflection and strategic practice:

Moral courage and seeing solitude as a first principle:

Choosing to reclaim solitude in leadership

Contribution to solitude in leadership

Author note

About the author

Further related reading on Quiet Writing:

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