Writing Together and in Community with Beth Cregan

December 21, 2021

Welcome to Episode 6 of the Create Your Story Podcast on Writing Together and in Community.

In this episode, I’m joined by Beth Cregan of Write Away With Me – writer, writing teacher, mentor and workshop leader, and soon to be published author—and my morning co-writing buddy and collaborator for the upcoming Writing Road Trip kicking off in late January 2022.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Co-writing together at dawn
The value of writing community
Supporting each other
Writing identity
Editing & long-haul writing journeys
Writing her soon to be published book
Collaborating on The Writing Road Trip program
And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to Episode 6 of the Create Your Story Podcast and it’s the 20^th of December as I record this and we’re steadily marching towards Christmas. I hope things are not too frantic for you and that you are able to find some quiet spaces in your days and time to read, write and reflect on the year that’s nearly complete and the year to come.

I’m thrilled to have my friend Beth Cregan join us for the podcast today. To introduce Beth:

Twelve years ago Beth combined her passion for creativity with her great love of writing to launch her business, ‘Write Away With Me’. Since then, she’s presented hundreds of writing workshops to inspire and encourage young writers to find their voice, develop their writing skills and connect with their inner storyteller. Her work has branched out to include presenting writing workshops for adults of all ages and stages and taking on the role of a writing mentor. She believes writing simply makes life better so in 2017, she set out on a journey to write a book to inspire teachers to develop a daily authentic writing practice in their classrooms. Soon to be published in 2022 by Hawker Brownlow Education, writing this book was a transformational experience both personally and professionally. Beth lives in Melbourne.

Beth and I have a special relationship as early morning co-writers. We’ve never met in person but for many months now as we’ve both written our books, we’ve got up to greet each other at 5:30am or 6am, connecting via Zoom and dawn writing virtually in 25-minute bursts. In between we have the most fantastic chats on writing, editing, publishing and life. Today we will be chatting writing, co-writing, editing and working collaboratively as part of our wholehearted journeys. I am so excited we can share some of the joy and insights from our early morning private chats more publicly with you today.

Beth and I are also collaborating and co-hosting a community writing program The Writing Road Trip that kicks off in late January 2022 with a free 6-day challenge on your writing identity followed by a 6 week course to shape your Writing Roadmap and then a 6 month community program. If you’d like to join us or are just interested to find out more, head to The Writing Road Trip waitlist link in the show notes on QuietWriting.com. Or you can find the link in my bio on Instagram where I am @writingquietly and of course all the links to connect us with both are in the show notes. Before we head into the podcast, warmest wishes to you for this festive and holiday season. I hope you get to send time with loved ones and curl up with a good book or two. Thank you for listening and connecting with me, Quiet Writing and the Create Your Story Podcast. It means so much to me. So now let’s head into the interview!

Transcript of interview with Beth Cregan

Terri Connellan: Hello, Beth. And welcome to the Create Your Story Podcast. And thank you so much for your support of me and my book Wholehearted, especially as morning writing buddies.

Beth Cregan: It’s a pleasure to be here and it’s a pleasure to be here in daylight hours!

Terri Connellan: Yes. We usually catch up first thing in the morning at about five thirty or six in the dark. So yeah, so it’s good to connect and we’ll talk about that more as we go through. We’ve had lots of conversations about writing, editing, publishing, and so much more on our journey together so it’s great for us to be able to share some of those conversations with people today. So can you, as a starting point fill everyone in on how you got to be, where you are, what you do and your new book.

Beth Cregan: I trained as a kindergarten and primary teacher. So that was like 35 years ago and after I’d been teaching for a few years, I had a gap year in Asia, and I wrote every day. So I’d always loved writing, but it wasn’t so much of a daily practice. And then while I was away, I had that experience of making writing really part of my life.

So I came back and taught, but when I had Molly, my first daughter, I decided that perhaps I’d like to reinvent myself a little. I wasn’t sure that I wouldn’t teach, but I wanted to do something a little bit different. So I started to study professional writing and I loved it.

I loved everything about it. I loved being a student. I loved talking about writing, but I think perhaps the biggest part of that was that I worked out you could teach someone to write. Before then I had the experience of capturing my own thoughts, but I hadn’t really discovered that I could capture images and thread them together and make stories.

And when I realised that somebody could teach me to do that, I had that understanding that I could teach somebody also to do that. So I rather than go back into the system, I taught for a company that ran programs for gifted kids and I taught writing. So I did that and various other jobs along the way.

Then finally in I think 2010, I’d had the experience of setting up a kinder and I’d worked there for three years and I loved it. But it was where everything came together because I had the experience of running a business cause a kinder is a little like a business. So suddenly the writing and the running a business and the teaching all felt like they combined and I decided to start my own business.

So that was Write Away With Me and then I started to teach classes after school. So I had a core group of kids some of who’d been in my kindergarten groups came through into my writing classes after school. So that was lovely and then I started to also go into schools and teach writing workshops.

And from there, I also started to teach professional development workshops for teachers. So those three: my private teaching, in school teaching and working with teachers became the core of my business and my writing. And so I blogged about that and wrote newsletters. And from there, that was the start of the book really.

At first, I felt that creativity was being sidelined and it was very structured and very much based on assessment and data. And I wanted kids to have a chance to be creative and to fall in love with writing. And I had those kids after school who were kids that loved writing. And I just wanted to bring that spirit into schools. So that was my start and the book has changed and it’s something a little bit different to that now, but my original intention and it’s still the intention is to re-imagine how creativity could fit into the actual structure of our program as it stands now. So I think that answers all of those things.

Terri Connellan: Fantastic. Yes. It’s a big question, but in there, I’m just seeing writing as this thread that goes all the way through your teaching, your professional development with others, your own professional writing, learning, realising you can teach writing and then, sharing your knowledge from all that in a book. So, I love beautiful body of work focused around writing and around sharing the love too in there.

Beth Cregan: And I think writing has been my solid companion as a kid, as a teenager. Recently I spoke to, the year twelves at my school and they have a journal as part of their year 12 program. And I went back under the stairs and through all my boxes and found the journals that I had in year 12. And I realized that it’s just been there all the time, not always at the forefront, but al ways there.

Terri Connellan: It’s something that I connect with too. So it’s that idea of a body of work or ingredients or passions that keep popping up, but they take different forms that I think is something we connect. So we both have a passion for writing. We both have a love for writing, and one of the ways we connect around that is writing in the morning together.

So, Beth was already doing Dawn Writing and invited me to join. So at five thirty or six o’clock, depending on the time of year, we hop up together. I live in Sydney, Beth lives in Melbourne and we work via Zoom virtually to write. It’s a great joy. isn’t it Beth?

Beth Cregan: It is and it started so organically. It was the beginning stages of lockdown 2020. And I was talking to Sandra who joins us as well, it was just a let’s jump on and sort of connect with each other. And then that night, I just thought I’m going to do this Dawn Writers idea and invite other people to come and write with me because I felt like I really needed a structure.

I was needing to move on with my book and locked down and a house full of people all working at different places and the distractions. So it had this lovely start to it, not much thought just, sort of an idea in the shower and I had no expectations for how that would look, I think.

And, how it looks now is exactly the way it was meant to be, just a very small group of people, greeting each other at dawn and giving each other courage to work on our own projects.

Terri Connellan: It’s fantastic. And it’s been such a support for me in getting my book written and published and and I know we’re going through a similar journey, and we’re able to share experiences of particularly going through those hard, sloggy times where it feels like it’s endless, cheer each other on a bit.

Beth Cregan: Absolutely. I don’t want to say, I don’t think my book would be finished now if it wasn’t for that, because who knows how I would have wrangled it into shape, but I don’t think it would have been as joyful as it’s been and I don’t mean necessarily the writing experience has been joyful, because I think we’ve had lots of conversations about that. It’s not always joyful, but I think the conversations about writing that we have are joyful.

Terri Connellan: And I think the way we do it too, which, for people listening is like a 25 minute Pomodoro type, set a timer. And so we’re co-writing, but doing our own writing. And then at the end of the twenty-five minutes, we stop and have a chat. And often that might be what’s surfaced in the morning pages or what might be the focus of our work. So all those conversations are really helpful too. I think they take away the isolation.

Beth Cregan: They take away the isolation, and they become part of your writing identity. I think over the last, probably 18 months, at least we’ve been doing it consistently now, haven’t we? I feel like some of my real aha moments and real formative moments about writing have come from those conversations because there is something about the dawn and sort of breaking open and you’re breaking open your own day.

And there is a sort of a vulnerability about that energy. And I feel like some of the biggest things I’ve learned about myself and recorded are really important, foundational, to how I think of myself, came from those conversations.

Terri Connellan: I find that too. I’ve always got a notepad here and I’m often writing down things that might be something you say, or you recommend or a podcast. And, I think it’s too the rhythm of checking in regularly, you develop ongoing dialogue perhaps.

Beth Cregan: My book is for primary teachers, ultimately, although for any teachers at work and teach writing, but one of the chapter is about writing routines and rituals. And we don’t think always in terms of that in a primary school setting, but it has been really instrumental… it’s a rhythm and a routine for me to wake up and do a series of actions and to come in to the space where it’s usually quite dark. I only have a lamp. I do things very much the same each morning. And it means that when I sit down to do that, my brain signals, this is time to… if it’s journaling, then this is time to reflect. Or if it’s writing, this is time to think things through, this is time to brainstorm ideas. So that routine and that rhythm of, same time, same place. It’s always you and I, but other people come in and out of that as well. It’s amplified for me how important, routine and ritual is to really any sort of project that you’re working on.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And I think it’s that idea of where practice, writing practice or practice anything, and routine come together. But routine can sound dull and boring but that idea of practice and craft showing up to the page.

Beth Cregan: It does feel like in its own way, it feels like it’s sacred. And I think we’ve talked about this recently, that it feels somehow, it’s not religious or spiritual experience, but it is the regularity of a form of worship with words really and turning up to do that, making space to do that every day or five days and the days that we give ourselves off to sleep in.

Terri Connellan: And I know we often get to the end of that, it might be an hour and a half might be an hour, whatever we choose to do and say, well, that’s great. We’ve done the important thing for the day. And I think it gives you a bit of a headstart.

Beth Cregan: It does. On the days when I don’t do it, it feels like a slippery time in terms of settling down and getting work done. I’ll find myself sort of nine 30 and then suddenly I’ll do something else and it’ll be 10. Whereas when I have that start, I do go and do something afterwards. I usually have a bit of time out, cause it’s quite focused, even if you’re doing morning pages, it’s a real focus sort of time. So I usually take my stuff away, but when I come back, I’m in that zone of ready to go. I’m not all over the place. I’m not scattered. When I don’t do it, I have that feeling of being a little bit scattered and it takes me probably an hour or more to settle into my day. Whereas I think we’ve already done that by the time we have breakfast. That’s a bonus.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, I totally relate to that. And I think it’s that accountability to each other, but accountability to the practice too, which is great. Yeah. Some people have asked us about how hard it is to get up early and write. And, I think we’ve found that it’s not so hard, the more you do it. So what would you say motivates you or makes it easy to get up?

Beth Cregan: Well we were talking recently at your launch about morning and evening. And I think I wasn’t perhaps always a morning person because I know when my kids were little, they used to go to bed quite early and I used to have the evening where I would do creative things or whatever I was doing.

But I think over the years I’ve become a bit of a morning person. So the actual getting up naturally isn’t that difficult, but in 2016, I got acquainted with Ayurveda and they have a real teaching about greeting the day and various routines that you do. So I was already in that frame of mind. So getting up wasn’t such a problem, but I do think that once you start to wake up early and you do it consistently, you do find yourself going to bed earlier. I find when I get out of the habit of it, I think over January, when we had a break, I found myself going to bed at like 1130, midnight and sleeping in.

But when you actually get in that habit, you naturally can’t last long past 9: 30, 10, and then I just have everything set up, ready to go. I’m not a crazy organized person, but I usually spend a few minutes getting my teapot ready, getting my drink bottle, ready, making sure I’ve got room to balance a computer somewhere. I have my Ayurvedic routines that I might do already in the one spot. So I find that makes it easier. Just to not be scrambling for things. So I never have that sense that I’m belting down to turn on the computer in the nick of time. I always feel like it’s a smooth transition.

Terri Connellan: What I’m hearing from you is what I’ve learned too, and also working with clients is it’s what you do the night before really helps with the morning. The morning routine starts with the evening routine. And it was funny, we only talked about it at the virtual launch, but I do the same thing. I always make sure my clothes are there. I make sure the kettle’s filled up, the cup’s there. It’s got the teabag in and I just know there’s a set number of things and in a way that’s actually lovely. It’s nice. Cause you don’t get distracted. You’re just there to do that. And I said to you, I think this morning when we were talking that if I don’t have the accountability of you being there, I might get up early, but I tend to faff around. I think it helps to focus.

Beth Cregan: Yes, it does. And I think when I don’t have somebody else there, I don’t do the twenty-five bursts in the morning. I do sometimes do that during the day by myself, but in the morning I don’t tend to do it. And I think that does sort of lead you, the 25 minutes is a really good container for pouring things out. So yeah, I’m a bit the same. If I’m by myself, I tend to go through all those steps but I don’t settle as easily, I think, because part of the routine isn’t quite there.

Terri Connellan: For sure. So tell us more about your book and where you’re up to in the writing.

Beth Cregan: Well, as of today, I had the last 800 words or so, which were the conclusion. And I don’t know if you felt like this, but I felt a bit teary today just finishing off that last 800 words, because this piece of writing, this project, has been such a companion through lockdown. And we haven’t always seen eye to eye and it’s sometimes been a bit of a love, hate relationship, but we’ve had each other’s back the whole two years or close to two years.

So it felt great to start piecing that bit of writing together but I realized that I’d left it for a while and I think it was because I just didn’t want to sign off on that container that has really held my work and my life together, cause I haven’t been able to work in schools consistently.

So I’ve just finished that and the rest of the book has just undergone the first full structural edit where you move everything around and check your arguments and all those sorts of things. So, I know you, and I always say this that, you finish one part and you go, oh, that’s that? And I finished my book and then you find that you haven’t quite finished your book. So I feel like I’ve been saying I finished for a long time. But I think the gritty writing part of it is finished or close to finished.

And the book is about the importance of developing a daily writing practice in your classroom. It has prompts and ideas and activities, whereas we tend to work on our own, generate our own, writing projects. It’s not dissimilar in a way to what we do. I think when I first started it, I saw it very much as being the way to balance standardized testing. And in the re- writing cause I’ve actually restructured the whole book from the original manuscript, I had to really try and find a way to make it doable for teachers. So it’s really about how you could do a daily writing practice in that first 15 minutes of the day or, or some time in the day. So how you could actually make sure that your kids had that opportunity to interact with writing away from obvious assessment and how they could learn to develop their own processes.

Because often in a classroom, you’re providing one way of doing things. Whereas this is very much about kids learning to appreciate their own creative processes and have the sorts of conversations that we’re having in the morning, that form writing identity that get them to think about how they interact with writing.

So I guess my goal is to have a group of people that don’t see writing as something that happens in a classroom. That they see, like we’ve discussed, writing as a thread that will run through their lives in all different ways. That would be my greatest wish for that book.

Terri Connellan: What a brilliant goal to have for your book and to bring all your body of work as a teacher and a writer to share that love.

Beth Cregan: I have a love affair with capturing ideas. I like to think. And so I think writing is a way of capturing ideas and playing with words and I do really love that. I think writing makes life better, much better. And I think we could solve a lot of problems if people not necessarily wrote at 5:30 in the morning, but had time to think on paper every day.

Terri Connellan: I totally agree. And it’s made all the difference in my life and it’s something I’ve shared about in my book too. Of my 15 wholehearted self-leadership skills for women, writing regularly, is right up there whether it’s for clarity or sorting things out. It doesn’t have to be a book.

Beth Cregan: It’s a tremendous thinking tool. I think some people do leave writing at school and they finish and they think that that’s that. But if you can write for an audience of one, you don’t have to see yourself as writing for other people. You can be a writer that just writes and thinks on paper for yourself. And I think if we could get our politicians in the habit of daily writing practice, I think we’d see some real changes in Australia.

Terri Connellan: I think we might too. It makes a huge difference. So we’ve shared the ups and downs through the long haul writing processes in working on books and we both experienced challenges in the editing phases that we’ve talked about. My journey of writing was that I found the editing so much harder than I ever thought it would be. How about you? How did you find that?

Beth Cregan: I had a slightly different experience, I think, because the book was picked up by a traditional publisher and the publishing house was taken over by another company. So when it was taken over, I was then given the feedback that the book as it stood needed to be restructured. So I basically had this manuscript that I had to come up with a different plan and then find bits of the book that fitted into all of those sort of chapters.

So it was a real puzzle for me. And I think that’s where Dawn Writers made such a difference in those early days, because it really took a lot of courage to get in and try and piece this together. So the editing, the structural edit and checking that everything’s matched and that I put the puzzle back together in the right way has been… yeah. I love words, but it’s been a slog, an absolute slog

Terri Connellan: I’ve used the word slogan because it is. And when we had a discussion, some in the morning and some in the virtual launch, other words come up like tenacity and resilience, but yes, when you going through it, it definitely feels like a slog.

Beth Cregan: And I think culturally, we expect things to move. We live in a fast world. We expect things to move quickly and everywhere around you, you do have information, ideas, like, write your book in 30 days. And there’s this expectation that writing can be done quickly if you’re productive. And if you put time and where I found that I did all of those things and it was slow.

And so you have to learn to be happy with progress in whatever way it takes. I don’t think I understood that unfortunately to the very end. I think in one of the conversations that we had in the morning, we talked about slow writing and that wasn’t that many weeks ago. And I think the penny dropped that my expectation of what I could do and what actually played out were quite different. So instead of being happy with where I was in the process and being in the moment, I was always berating myself for not being faster and not being more productive or not being this or not being that. And I think it might be easier the next time because I’ve had that experience of my expectations and the reality of being quite different. That’s a real mindset. Any long haul project, I think you have to really put your mind to it.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And it’s patience, that getting frustrated with yourself because it’s not finished or it’s not this, or it’s not, that can pop up quite a lot. My particular version of that is that I made it quite tricky for myself cause I wrote this huge draft and then fortunately working with Penelope Love who received it as a friend and an editor helped me with the developmental editing to realize there was two books in there. But then we had to separate them out and then it was working on the two at one time. So I certainly didn’t make it easy for myself in that.

Beth Cregan: So sort of similar in that your manuscript was a bit of a puzzle. That first manuscript was a puzzle to put together.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. When you said puzzle, I went, yeah, that’s, that’s exactly what I experienced because what we actually did was went through and color-coded the bits that went.. We did that to the whole manuscript. Blue was the main one, pinky color was the second color. And then there was another color for things that perhaps didn’t quite go in either. It really was a puzzle.

Beth Cregan: I used to worry about this last year, and I don’t think too much about it now, but I used to think, parts of this are going to get missed. And they’re going to sort of fall off and I’m going to want them back. I don’t worry about that so much because I feel like any parts that are missed, I’ve got all the manuscripts. So they’ll be repurposed in some way, but it seemed important to me last year that I couldn’t lose any of it.

Terri Connellan: I felt that too. I have a document. I just put all the things that didn’t go anywhere else there. Yeah. Interesting. So one thing we’ve talked about on the way through was maybe doing a session of how not to write because of all the things that we’ve learned on the way through the journey. It might be nice to share with people, a few things we have learned about what not to do.

Beth Cregan: Ooh, what not to do. One of the things that is significant to my experience and perhaps it would be across genres as well is I think writing a book in the educational space has mostly a particular structure. And I didn’t understand that. I wasn’t quite aware of that. And I think perhaps if I’d have taken a step back early days and looked at what that structure might be, I perhaps wouldn’t have chosen the way that I chose to approach it.

However, the flip side of that is that I got to say it exactly how I would have said it and it has been possible to make it into a different shape. So I think rather than spend too much time worrying about it, perhaps people should jump in and know that if it’s not quite the right outline, or it’s not quite the right structure, it is possible to change, that’s the upside of it. But I feel like if I had perhaps done that, I could have saved myself a lot of time. Definitely.

And I also used an editor because I intended to self publish. I also used an editor and whilst the editor, a freelance editor, her work was fine, but I think I also needed someone who had worked in that space and who was in educational publishing. So I think that would have also, probably given me a few more clues early on that the structure might not have actually worked. So I think being a bit specific to your genre, perhaps looking at what other books in that space might look like and the structure they use and looking at who edits in that space, sort of narrows down, builds your field of expertise.

So I didn’t do that. I really sort of threw it up and did it my own way, which now I can say that it all worked out for the best, but I think I may have saved myself some time and heartache perhaps.

Terri Connellan: And as you were talking, that really resonated with my own experience – that idea of writing that very long draft and then realizing that there were two books. I had always thought about a workbook, for example, but not probably something that was a distinct, separate book that had quite a lot of content in it too. So yeah, similar learnings. Maybe it’s just part of the writing process that you create a bigger thing and you do your own way of working and then you work out what the piece wants to look like.

Beth Cregan: You could spend a lot of time and energy researching and fitting into a structure and mate, you may have to change it any way. So I think you have to start don’t you, you just have to make a start and trust that the material, if you have a strong enough connection and a strong enough will to birth it into the world, that piece of work will find its shape. I think you just have to trust that. Did you think too much about that – what you might have to do to shape it when you were writing it?

Terri Connellan: Not in the way that it happened, but I did have a strong sense of what it looks. I’ve shared on social media, the mind mapping. And I had a structure pretty early on about what I wanted it to look like. And I had that idea of being layered and spiraled, which is in there. But I think it had to evolve itself. Like you said, it had to incubate and it had to grow and I had to have life experiences to bring to it. And we’ve both read the lovely Anne Janzer’s The Writer’s Process, where she talks about it, like bread and, the idea of the dough rising, where sometimes things have to almost take on a life of their own before, when they know what to do with them.

Beth Cregan: Yes, absolutely. So I think what else would… I know we’ve had so many conversations about this and I think perhaps because I’ve just finished that last little bit of writing I’m in that optimistic space where I feel like I did everything, everything happened as it should, not necessarily that I did everything right. But everything happened to plan in some shape or form. Well, what other things have we talked about that we would do differently?

Terri Connellan: I think probably the structure is the big one that we’ve both experienced. Sounds like that’s something that you learn from experience. The next book you write will be different to the first time around or second time around. Probably some of the things we’ve talked about, the idea of that mindset around the long haul, long haul creative mindset, and just being a bit more patient.

And then the other thing too, I think, is just realizing the value of writing community andco-writing. But it took me a long time. On my journey, it’s been very much about realizing that writing is much more collaborative than I thought it was.

Beth Cregan: Yes, and I think that’s true. I did work with a mentor originally to start things off and I really liked having that comradery with somebody else. Yes, then it did feel for a long, long time like I was just left to my own devices and it’s lonely to hold faith to something that you’re not really quite sure what the outcome will be. So yeah, I think Dawn Writers always feels like an act of bravery. Community does have that sense of bravery. Doesn’t it?

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. Yeah. I think it’s realizing too, whilst we often write alone, even if we’re writing together you write alone, it’s that idea of realizing that it’s the communities or the connections. We met through a mastermind, through the Gentle Business Mastermind,, which supported me as a community. And I know supported you. So that idea of at least having somewhere where you can just say, well, this is what I’m up to. This is what I’m doing.

Beth Cregan: And we’re invested in each other’s work, you know, I think that’s what you find, that you become really interested in what you’re doing. And I’ve got to see the process unfold for you, which has been highly motivating. So yeah, the value of community and early on, the value of having that community is really important.

Terri Connellan: I wish I’d had it a bit early on in the process too. It’s been a big learning for me about, co-writing and writing community and how important it is.

So, we’re both writing teachers by background. Interestingly, I also started as an infant’s/ primary, teacher and then went into adults and then I worked in the adult literacy area. You took another path, but, I’m interested as a fellow writing teacher, how being a writing teacher helps you with your own writing?

Beth Cregan: I haven’t had afterschool classes now since the beginning of 2020, but prior to that, I would run pop up after school classes based at schools. But I also had my own group of students that followed through over years, many years, and they were my writing group really, because I would write with them. Anything that I learned at all, was interested in, I took to that group. I’m forever grateful to those parents because although I would at the beginning of the term plot out a program, but the parents were incredibly trusting of what we would achieve during that time and how it would play out.

So I had a lot of freedom. Like one time, I was reading Natalie Goldberg about walking meditation. So I decided that we would do walking meditation before we started writing. So all the things that I learnt I could bring and share in community. And although these writers were aged eight to 12 and 13, they were equally as skilled as me. So I did have that sense of meeting with another group of writers every week. But also when you’re teaching, it’s never the same. So you’re drawing on what the kids give you and you’re learning things as you go.

Once we were sharing bits of writing and talking, we ended up just talking about the power of verbs and how a verb really transported the meaning of the sentence. And it had to be quite specific. And it led me on this personal journey about verbs. So I felt like anything I learned, I brought to my classes and anything that came up at those classes became my points of curiosity. So it’s this wonderful circle of giving and taking.

I did a podcast a while ago and Ellen, who, you know, introduced me as a teacher at heart. And I thought that’s very true. I think teaching and writing have always been so important to me and it’s the teaching I learn and I never feel with teaching that it’s just something that I’m giving.

I feel even when I step into a classroom to do a workshop, I always come out knowing that I’ve discovered something new or I’ve seen something new or something has happened that keeps me company on the way home. Some student had this little piece of writing about the book of everything. And I mulled over this book of everything all the way home. So, the characters that I hear and the storylines that I get to hear just sort of play in my head on the way home.

Terri Connellan: It sounds like a wonderful dance of ideas and inspiration, imagination.

Beth Cregan: Actually that’s a beautiful image because that’s how it really does feel like, a nice sort of flow between those things.And this lovely sort of movement and choreography, some of which is planned and some of which is just moving to the music.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. Beautiful. So there’s two questions that I’m asking every guest on the Create Your Story podcast. It’s a big question, but just interested in what comes up for people. So firstly, how have you created your story of your lifetime?

Beth Cregan: I think that the beginnings of the story that I’m in now, the phase of life that I’m in now, I think part of the thread of that and perhaps part of the writing, how the writing fits into this too, is that I’m one of six kids. So four older sisters and a younger brother.

And I think when you come in at number five, some of the key archetypal roles in the family are already taken. So we already had the smart one, the super generous, the athletic, the organized. So, I never felt under pressure to do this, but I do think you try and find ways to be different and to define yourself and looking for your voice or finding your voice and being heard in that group is really important.

And I think part of what I do now with writing and what I do with teachers is about finding a voice. So I feel like find your voice has been the common thread in that story line. That’s the plot really, and it’s finding a voice through all these different mediums and elements and relationships and experiences. And I think Morning Pages, and I know that tarot is something. I had Oracle cards, but I think tarot is something that I’ve really seen and read from your book, but seeing you do, and it’s now becoming something that really inspires my intuition. So it’s not just finding your voice and speaking out, but it’s feeding and, and nurturing that inner voice, that voice of intuition.

So those tools, writing, tarot, and incubating ideas for me, gardening, all of those things are about creating something and speaking through the things that you create or the stories or whatever.

Terri Connellan: I love that thread of finding your voice in all that you do and teaching’s a way of sharing what’s important and making a difference too. So, thank you. It’s beautiful. And you’ve touched on some of these. So in Wholehearted, I talk about wholehearted self-leadership tips and we share some passions in those areas, but are there any particular top wholehearted self-leadership tips and practices, especially for women that you’d mention?

Beth Cregan: Well, I know we’ve spoken about writing, perhaps that’s probably that or some sort of daily reflection time. Perhaps for some people that’s not necessarily writing. Maybe that’s painting, maybe that’s reading, but I do think that having some time out and it doesn’t have to be long. Sometimes when we think of self care or self leadership, we imagine we need big chunks of time. And I don’t think you do need big chunks of time. I think you need to just carve out a little bit of space to hear your voice in whatever way plays out for you. Whether that’s in the garden or in the shower, wherever. Just tuning into something other than the world around you is really important to me. Perhaps it is about finding your voice, using your voice, but nurturing your voice as well.

And creativity, I think is the heart and soul of us. And I think everybody’s creative. I think some people practice creativity in different ways and their skills may be more defined in certain areas. But, we’re all creative. That is what makes us different from animals and from various other species. So I think honoring that in some way is one of the best ways that you can make your mark on the world, which is self-leadership. So whatever that is, however you decide to practice creativity and in whatever shape or form, I think those two things, taking some time to reflect and perhaps an internal response and an external response, making something, thinking about something, connecting ideas, all of those things. An internal and an external responses is a nice connection, just a way of responding, a nice response, I think to your day.

Terri Connellan: So it’s like a way of internalizing, but also bringing in like a balance thing. We know too much internal work, not externalizing can be a problem, but getting out and not taking the time to settle and integrate can be a problem too. So yeah, I think you’re right. I think it’s about that balance or of the two that makes a big difference.

Beth Cregan: And in whatever way it works for you. I think we’re spending so much time and we have so much great information at our fingertips about how people all live. And sometimes it looks like other people what they’re doing works so well and we have to try it, but, I’ll never forget when I first started yoga, I had this great teacher Rita and we were all mid pose and I’m not particularly flexible when it comes to yoga. So holding a pose for me, mid pose isn’t a fabulous way to stop. But we’re all mid pose and she stopped us and said, just out of the blue, be your own guru, stop paying so much attention to other voices and listen to your own voice. So I always have somewhere on my desk, ‘be your own guru’, because part of that internal is looking at what you already have in there.

Terri Connellan: And what the truth is for you cause we’re also different. Yeah. Beautiful. I love that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So, where can people find out more about you and your book and the work online?

Beth Cregan: Well I have a website, so the website is WriteAwayWithMe.com and I’m on Instagram also @write.away.with.me which is a blend of my own writing life and my work. I do run programs and hopefully we’ll run programs again in schools once we’re up and running. But I do also run programs for kids online. So if you come to the website and you can have a look and see what’s around. I’ve had a term off, but, I’ll be heading back into doing some online classes.

Terri Connellan: Great. That’s fantastic. And you and I’ve also been hatching up some plans for something very exciting together to offer next year. So shall we chat a little bit about that? So yeah, Beth and I are joining forces to offer I think the experiences of a lot of the things we’ve talked about today. That community support, skills, teaching, coaching, skills we bring together. But also, I know you and I are both big believers in creating a space, creating a container and facilitating. So that’s something with a focus on writing.

Beth Cregan: We had our first planning session yesterday. I was all buzzy by the end of the day. So it’s nothing better than having that feeling. But we’ve talked a lot together and because I’ve had this experience, I’m really keen to explore writing identity and how we view our relationship with writing and how we can build that relationship with writing. Because I know that the experience of working on a book has changed that dynamic for me completely.

I think writing has always been there, but now writing is very much part of how I see myself and that wasn’t always the case. If someone asked me what I did, I probably never said that I was a writer. I probably chose teacher or various other labels. So I’m really keen to explore how we step into that relationship with writing and how we develop that relationship with writing, because I think that makes all the difference to how you then approach writing projects.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And I think that’s something we’ve both learnt as people always passionate about writing, being writing teachers, working with others, but also going through writing projects and writing longer haul projects like books. So the things we’ll be focusing on are all about identity. And in that to me is a bit around mindset, how we see ourselves, skills because there’s obviously skills involved in writing. But I think both of us are very strong on process, writing process too. And that will be a key part of what we’ll explore.

Beth Cregan: And also the conversations, that’s where the real jewels are. Don’t you think? That ability to share your experience with someone and have them say, oh, I see you, and I hear you. I know where you’re coming from. And I think that has been part of our journey together because we’ve been able to do that for each other. And we have the proof of how that works or how that has worked for us. So, yeah, I’d love to be able to offer the goodness of that to other people who want to be involved or take on a writing project of some sort.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And as we said earlier, I think I particularly said, but I think you’ve also mentioned, that idea that I wish I had writing community earlier in my journey. And I think that’s what we can offer too, is that idea of community, how to create community, being a community together and the support. We’ll put a link where people can express interest if they’d like to know more in the show notes. So stay tuned.

Beth Cregan: It’s being currently planned as we speak.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. But I think that’ll be a really exciting space and program for next year for us to share. So thanks again, Beth. It’s been a real joy to talk today.

Beth Cregan: My pleasure. I’ve loved it. And I feel so proud to see your book in the world is like seeing the dream of our mornings in a really tangible way, isn’t it?

Terri Connellan: Thank you. That’s really beautiful to hear. I can’t wait to see yours in the world. That’s going to be a very exciting day too.

Beth Cregan: I think there’s nothing like having other writers invested in your work because it feels incredible to have people who are not just happy for it to be out in the world, which of course everyone is, but to really have a sense of watching it grow up almost.

Terri Connellan: Yes, because it’s a real psychological journey, that whole practical and psychological journey. So for someone to go on that road with you ,on that trip, it’s very special. So thank you for being that for me.

Beth Cregan: Oh and thank you. I just marvel at the fact that one night in the shower, I had this idea and it ended up being so fruitful for both of us.

Terri Connellan: Oh, thank you. I’m glad you had that thought in the shower.

Okay. Well, thanks so much.

Beth Cregan: Pleasure.

Links to explore:

The Writing Road Trip – a community program with Beth Cregan – kicking off Jan 2022

My books and book club:

Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

Wholehearted Companion Workbook

Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club – open for enrolment now – join us for 2022.

Free resources:

Chapter 1 of Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition

https://www.quietwriting.net/wholehearted-chapter-1

Other free resources: https://www.quietwriting.com/free-resources/

My coaching:

Work with me

Personality Stories Coaching

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/writingquietly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writingquietly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/writingquietly

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-connellan/

About Beth Cregan

Beth’s website: Write Away with Me

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/write.away.with.me/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writeawaywithme/

love, loss & longing podcast writing

The Healing Power of Writing and Retreat with Kerstin Pilz

December 12, 2021

Welcome to Episode 5 of the Create Your Story Podcast!

In this episode, I’m joined by Kerstin Pilz, published author, former academic, writing teacher, yoga teacher and retreat leader.

You can listen above or via your favourite podcast app. And/or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

In this episode, we chat about:

Transition and turning points
The healing power of writing
Dealing with grief and challenges of loss
The value of retreat for writing and life
Being a TEDx speaker
Claiming your story
Writing her memoir, ‘Falling Apart Gracefully’
Writing practices and teaching
And so much more!

Transcript of podcast

Introduction

Welcome to this episode of the Create Your Story Podcast.

I’m thrilled to be speaking today with my friend, Kerstin Pilz, who you might remember featured in Episode 2 of the podcast as part of the first Wholehearted virtual book launch. Kerstin and I connected via social media and have had the joy of meeting up in three continents and countries including when I joined Kerstin for her first writing and yoga retreat in Hoi An, Vietnam in September 2018. We chat about retreat, the value of incubation in writing, Kerstin’s memoir in progress and more.

But first, a personal update and something you might like to be part of. As I speak it’s the 12^th of December 2021 and the Wholehearted Self-leadership Book Club is open for enrolment with the first orientation session coming up this week on 15 or 16 December, depending on your time zones. This is a year-long, actionable, community read of my books, Wholehearted: Self-leadership for women in transition and the Wholehearted Companion Workbook. So if transition is a big theme or focus for you now and into 2022, it will be a powerful, value-packed way to do the work of transition over time with accountability and community, and make space for the deep shifts you desire. it’s part book club, part group coaching and a transformative reading experience.

So head to the Book Club links or the links in my Instagram bio, where I am @writingquietly to find out more and join the fabulous group of women gathering.

Now to introduce today’s guest.

Kerstin Pilz PhD is a published author, former academic with almost 20 years university teaching experience, a TEDx speaker and a 200 RYT yoga teacher. She is currently completing her memoir Falling Apart Gracefully. Her previous publications include academic monographs and travel features in the Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian and the New York Times and travel industry magazines. When tragedy turned her life upside-down, she discovered the healing power of writing and now teaches creative writing online and on multi-day retreats in her beautiful home in Mission Beach, Far North Queensland, Australia and in Hoi An, Vietnam, where she lives part time.

Kerstin and I met via our mutual interest in writing and living a creative life after a more academically and teaching focused career. Kerstin was the retreat host in Vietnam for retreat I attended while writing Wholehearted in 2018, is a Wholehearted Stories author: Grief and pain can be our most important teachers.

Today we will be chatting about transition and turning points, shaping a self-directed creative life, writing as a source of healing and growth in challenging times and the experience of being a TEDX speaker and of writing her memoir ‘Falling Apart Gracefully’.

There’s so much wisdom in this chat and I am excited to share this conversation with Kerstin with you today.

Transcript of interview with Kerstin Pilz

Terri Connellan: Hello Kerstin and welcome to the Create Your Story Podcast. Thank you for your connection, your support of me, Wholehearted and Quiet Writing.

Kerstin Pilz: Thank you, Terri. I’m really pleased to be here. Thank you so much.

Terri Connellan: So we’ve connected around creativity, living a self-directed life, writing and so much more on our journey together. We even met in three continents in Frankfurt, Hoi An and Bundeena where I live. So it’s so great to be able to share the insights from our conversations and our connections today. Can you provide an overview for people listening about your background, how you came to be where you are and the work you do now.

Kerstin Pilz: Okay. Thank you. Well, where to start? You’ll probably be wondering along the track what my accent is so I’ll start with that. I’m German. And when I was eight years old, I thought I want to be a writer. I just loved the idea of creating stories, but then of course, life happened and I moved to Italy and then eventually to Australia and I couldn’t write in either of those languages as a novelist or writer. So I went into a different career. So I taught literature for many years at the university, and I actually ended up doing a PhD in Italian studies on Italian literature. And then life change happened for me and I realized, it’s a turning point that necessitates perhaps finally actually also going for what I’ve always wanted to do, and that is write full time.

And so that took a few stops and starts, copywriting, travel writing, teaching at university and eventually I created Write Your Journey and the idea is I’m sharing tools with my community that helped me heal after a very difficult life event. And writing had been my tool, I call it my lifesaver. So personal reflective writing. And I’m also at the moment finally coming to the end of my draft of my memoir about these events called Falling Apart Gracefully.

Terri Connellan: Incredible. So it’s amazing how many similarities there are in our stories. And we often find the theme s that we both relate to align. One thing we’ve both shared is a major transition from a long-term career. In your case, a career in academia to a more creatively focused life. So can you describe what that transition has been like for you? How long it took and the main turning points. And I know that’s a big question too.

Kerstin Pilz: It’s a big question. It took a long time. I sort of felt at at age 48 when basically what, what triggered my life change was that my husband got sick with cancer and then he passed away and I realized that it was such a profound experience. I felt like, okay, a portal had opened up, I’d gone through a portal and it was time to become somebody new as a result of that experience of going through grief and so on.

So it wasn’t as straight forward as I had hoped it to be. And it took a lot longer than I had envisioned it. So basically I decided to leave a tenured university position as a head of department, which was a big choice. And most people thought I was crazy and I would regret it.

I mean, who let’s go of excellent superannuation, a lot of time paid leave that you can spend at home to do your research and to write your papers. But I no longer wanted to write in that voice. And I’m sure I could have, perhaps within academia explored other ways of using my voice in new, more creative ways, but it also had to do with the fact that I no longer wanted to teach Italian, which was the language that my husband and I had spoken.

And so I think it took me a long time to actually come to the point where I was writing my own book because I had to first process those events. So I turned to travel writing, and that was very exciting. I actually moved to the Maldives for a year. I worked there at the university, it was a DFAT funded appointment. And then I stayed on and I became a travel writer. So I would say I honed my writing in many different genres until I finally reached that point where I was ready to write that memoir and I love writing it. It’s not giving me a lot of income at the moment, but you know, I’m happy. I’m happy to be living in my passion and not making much money, but I can live very frugally.

I used to live in Vietnam as you know, for four years, which made things easier. And I loved living there. It was a great community, but then COVID happened and I remained stuck here and the borders closed. So that was in a way a blessing in disguise because it has forced me to stay in the one spot. I can’t travel as you know, the borders are closed. So I said to myself, well, let’s write that book. And yes, I’m very happy to say I’ve been extremely productive on that front.

Terri Connellan: Oh, that’s fantastic. And it’s incredible to hear your journey through, from academic career to where you are now and the twists and turns. And I can certainly relate to your point that what you think is going to happen or what you plan to do and what happens often two very different things. So in your Wholehearted Story on Quiet Writing, you share the story of how grief and pain can be our most important teachers. And you’ve touched a bit already, what happened in your life that that story is about. So what did you learn from moving through and on from such difficult times?

Kerstin Pilz: Oh, yes. Well, my difficult times, and I have said it publicly in my TED talks so it’s not a secret. My grief was complicated by the fact that I found out virtually in the same week, if not actually on the same day that my husband, when I found out that he was terminally ill, that his cancer was incurable. I also found out that he had been unfaithful to me, serially unfaithful. And so my world fell apart, you know, several times in that moment and so what I learned from that, and that was the moment when I had to make a decision, do I leave him? And of course it was not clear whether he had three months or five years, the doctors kept saying, we don’t know, it could be two years. It could be three years. So the decision, yeah. Do I stay or do I leave? That was a real turning point for me. And in order to reach that decision, I did something unusual. Most people probably wouldn’t do that. I locked myself away in a 10 day silent Vipassana retreat.

I remember my best friend saying, are you sure you want to do that? What if you have a breakdown, the monks are not trained to help you, if you have a meltdown. I said, it’s fine. This is a conversation, a very deep conversation. I have to do on my own terms. And I feel that Buddhism can give me the tools to actually understand what it is I have to do. Namely let go, and cultivate compassion.

And I think this is where I discovered the whole heartedness paradigm, if you like, is do I close my heart and leave this man and say, all right, that’s it you’re on your own? Not that he would have been on his own. He had a family and he had his daughter and, you know, Italian family and close my heart and perhaps become bitter, drink too many glasses of red wine just to close that chapter.

Or do I take the other choice, which is a much more difficult and stay with this man. Of course, he also wasn’t like in the movies repentant and I had sort of imagined that moment where he goes home, ‘Look sorry, honey. It happened. I’m very sorry.’ No, it didn’t happen that way. It was actually much more brutal.

However, the choice was, do I keep my heart open? Do I use this as a opportunity to evolve and to grow? Or do I choose the other options? Which could very well lead to me becoming a very bitter and twisted old lady. So I’m grateful I took that choice. So that’s the first thing I learned, to actually embrace the personal hurt. You also as your most important teacher, I mean, it’s a sort of banal and simple thing to say, but it’s super important, I feel. Secondly, it gave me that feeling of being invincible. What else can happen to me? And in fact, as you know 10 days after the funeral, we had a major category five cyclone, which was billed as the largest cyclone in living memory, destroy my beach side town.

It in fact made landfall, not far from my veranda. And so, what I learned is that you’re actually more resilient than you think, the inner resilience. And the other thing I learned and this was shocking, is that our Western society, first of all, unless perhaps you are a Christian, but most of us are secular or even atheist, we don’t have any rituals to deal with death. We don’t have any sort of protocol or any comfort around grief. In fact, I found it very shocking, how people judged me, how people told me, get over it already. It’s been five months, how people felt uncomfortable to even mention the topic. So that was an incredible learning.

And that’s where much later I discovered Brené Brown who says it so eloquently. The truly brave are those who allow themselves to be vulnerable because it takes courage to feel all those messy emotions. It’s much easier to run away to numb your pain. Not that I didn’t try that of course as well. But those emotions will always catch up with you in the end. So that’s another very important thing I learned that if you’re over grief, you get through it. And if you give yourself to actually get through it on your own time, in your own time and on your own terms, it’s a much deeper healing. At least that’s what it was for me. I’m sure there are people who do it in different ways and equally feel healed, but that was what happened for me.

Terri Connellan: Yes. And from the experiences I’ve been through, obviously quite different set of circumstances, but resonates with me with what you’re saying is that we would never wish for these circumstances in any way, shape or form, but when they do happen, there’s an opportunity for us to dig deep and that idea of creating a story, or as you say, in your lovely TEDx talk, being in charge of the stories that we tell. I guess that Falling Apart Gracefully too, your beautiful memoir title. We do fall apart in a way, but what’s the rebuilding process too.

Kerstin Pilz: Yes exactly. In fact, I did pitch this to an agency who said I don’t like the title because you want the rebuilding part in there as well. I said, yes, it goes without saying, in fact I had thought about it as ‘never waste a good crisis’ because really it was an opportunity to use this moment to actually learn something really profound.

And of course the other thing you learn when you are in the face of death and especially if a loved one is the preciousness of your own life. And that moment when he say I am no longer going to remain stuck in a shadow career. I am now going to go for what I really have been wanting to do. I could drop dead or, you know, have a cancer diagnosis tomorrow.

You just don’t know. This came completely out of the blue for us. We were about to head overseas and go on a adult gap year and had everything planned. It was basically the eve before our departure that this happened, that he got ill.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, it’s just amazing how life can change so quickly. I think that’s something too we learn from these experiences and to make the most of every moment. So tell people what your life looks and feels like now, because it’s obviously through all of that, moved on to something quite different.

Kerstin Pilz: Yeah. So it took a long time. I did a lot of detours. I did a lot of things. I kept thinking immediately, the next year, you have to be productive. You were a head of department. Now you have to quickly do something else. So I took on a voluntary position, very onerous, as a director of a film festival. And I realised that wasn’t actually what I was meant to do. So it was a long process of figuring it out.

Right now my life looks like, well, the best thing was for me to decide, to rent my house out on Airbnb. I’m lucky enough I can do that here, it’s a beach side community. And to start again in a completely different community. And that was Hoi An in central coastal central Vietnam. You’ve been there. It’s a wonderful place. And I did a yoga teacher training in Nepal the year in 2016, when we decided this. I have a new partner now I should say, so that also happened. So that’s a lovely, it can happen. You can have your life back, even after difficult things happen.

And Hoi An, I set up myself as somebody who teaches and shares the tools that help me heal and yoga, meditation, mindfulness, journaling, and of course also creative writing. And so I used to teach it in workshops in Hoi An. And I built up my online platform. I do also teach these things online although at the moment I’m focusing exclusively on getting my own book written.

But the main thing and I really enjoy this is holding those retreats. You were at the very first in fact in Hoi An, and we were only a very small group. And now with COVID, I have shifted them to Mission Beach, cause I literally got locked out of Vietnam. All my things are still there. And I decided, well, let’s do them in Australia. And of course there’s a lot of demands. Lots of people want to do these retreats. So we have five day retreats where people can really get into their manuscripts, into the body, finding the stories they’re holding and, and just use the time to write.

Terri Connellan: Beautiful. I love that your business is called, Write Your Journey. And what you’ve done is really created and shaped a beautiful journey through incredibly challenging times. So it’s really inspiring. So while we’re talking about retreat and my experience of being on retreat with you in Hoi An, Vietnam was such an important part of my journey and my writing, my book Wholehearted. And one thing I’ve come to realize is the value of incubation in writing and retreat, especially in hindsight, when I look back over the four years of writing my book. So what would you say is the value of retreat as a writer? And what experiences do you create as a retreat leader and host?

Kerstin Pilz: Yeah, so I think the value of the retreat is really giving yourself that stretch of time, where you’re away from your family, away from your work, from your desk. I encourage lots of offline time, because you really want to slow down and become present to those stories inside of you, that that are dying to be told. I also of course, offer guidance on how to tell a story. So I tailor these retreats to the particular group, so one time, people wanting to write nonfiction books. So, you know, be focused on that. The last retreat we had people wanting to focus on short stories so we did a lot of emphasis on that. And I think the value is that you have the opportunity to really get into the flow. And I noticed this also with writing my own book. You know, if I give myself a long weekend alone without a partner without anything else, you really stay with the story.

And often the benefits come, rippled through you even much later. So I think rest and retreat. I’ve actually realized this when I was in Thailand for that Vipassana retreat I mentioned. It was at a public temple. I was the only white person. There was all local women, mostly women. And they said to me, well, we do this once a year. It’s sort of, they didn’t use the word ‘self-care’ but basically the idea is as a Buddhist, your work on your inner transformation, you’re constantly working on yourself and you should take regular retreats to deepen that inner work.

For me, when I was still working, we got 20 days paid leave, which is not very much. And I always thought, why would I spend those days of leave on retreat? Like, let’s say meditation retreat, not speaking. I always considered it to be a waste of time and I’ve changed my mind 100% on that. It is the best investment you can make for yourself.

Terri Connellan: That’s beautiful. And in terms of the experiences you create, I know the retreat I went on was a blend of yoga, writing, but also getting out and about, and for me, it was very much about sharpening my senses too. I know in Hoi An, we went to the local markets and we bought the food. We went back and we cooked it and we ate it and it was actually very rejuvenating.

Kerstin Pilz: Yes, actually. And you will remember, I think maybe it was even on that morning when we went to market, we use the, the Buddhist concept of beginner’s mind, you know, see the eyes as if you see the world through fresh eyes as if you’re seeing it for the first time, which in a context, in a foreign context, like Vietnam where everything literally is foreign and new is easy. It’s part of the experience anyway, but we also do that very actively here in Australia. And of course, for most people coming up from Melbourne, let’s say Mission Beach, which is very tropical, is also like they’re going overseas. But to actually consciously focus on seeing things for the first time through beginner’s mind is a really good lens to use as a writer. Yeah. Like you said, sharpens your skills of observation.

Terri Connellan: Yeah, and I think it’s about a reset. We can feel quite jaded. And I think that taking ourselves out of our normal day-to-day routines, it’s just totally refreshing.

Kerstin Pilz: Mm. Yes. And also you do it with a group of like-minded people. You know, I sometimes have very small retreats. The one that you came on was very small. Sometimes I have larger ones and of course, inevitably you get people from every personality type imaginable, but the thing is you’re there because of your shared passion and your shared drive to actually do that slowing down. And that can be very nourishing, the synergy that is created even those of us who are introverts will really benefit from that exposure to others who are on a similar journey.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. I found that to be the case. So in October, 2020, you presented a TEDx talk on the healing power of writing, which is incredible. And we’ll put it in the show notes and encourage people to watch that talk. Can you tell us about that experience, which I’m sure must have been quite nerve wracking, why you chose that topic and how writing can help us heal?

Kerstin Pilz: Three questions I guess but that’s great. I love talking about that experience. So first of all, the experience was just very random. I got stuck here, borders closed and I was like, okay, what do I do next? And so just coincidentally actually was somebody who came to a retreat. She also went and presented and she mentioned it to me. The deadline was like the next day. And I thought, okay, I’ll give it a shot.

Choosing a topic was very easy because the healing power of writing is what I do, and what I would like to think my business is about. And the tagline to that actually is you are the author of your own life, so you can write the next chapter. So my narrative, my story that I had set up for myself being based in Vietnam, doing what I do in Vietnam, I had retreats scheduled that year, which of course had to be all be canceled is, turn a page at any moment and write another chapter. And especially as long as you keep in focus that you don’t want to be the victim of any circumstances you want to actually be the hero of your own story, claiming your own story. So that I thought has to be the message and especially given this was of course, the first year of the pandemic and we were all a bit in shock, what’s happening here. So I thought it might also be a really good time to share that message with the world that, Hey, we’re all going through this very difficult time collectively, but there is one tool we all have available to us 24 7 at the cost of pen and paper. And that is self-reflexive writing.

So, and then to the logistics, the event was in Townsville, which is just local, it was three hour drive. I was very lucky that the person who organized the event Joanne Keon, she teaches public speaking at the local high school there in Pimlico Townsville. And she offered some coaching sessions and for free. And I thought, of course, another skill. Why not? So I actually went and met with her a couple of times and she really helped me tell it as a story that draws the reader in the reader, the listener, the audience. And the difficult part was that other famous TED talk speakers, but even the not so famous ones generally get a year lead up time.

We had from finding out that we were accepted to the actual night of the presentation, we had just under one month, which was extremely scary, but in a way it was a blessing in disguise because it meant my focus for one month, and I was by myself cause my partner was back in Vietnam, was to get this talk written and rehearsed.

And because you don’t get a teleprompter, you actually have to learn every word off by heart. And I’ve written a blog post on how to prepare, because I learned so much from this experience that I thought it might be useful for others to share. But one of the things I’d like to say is it really taught me that it’s okay and it’s important to own your story, to claim your voice and to feel confident stepping in front of an audience and saying, here is my story, and this is the reason I would like to share this with you. And then to tell your wobbly knees, just keep me straight because I have a very important message to share with the world and my knees obeyed.

I mean, I was quite impressed by myself, how well I did, considering that I had a bright light shining right into my face. I couldn’t look at any notes. I had to have memorized every word. We had a time limit, and if you go over the time limit, we were told it will not be uploaded to the TED side, so it will be disqualified. But we had no way of seeing a timer. So in other words, you have to rehearse it, not to the second, but basically you have to feel very comfortable with the pacing. The other thing I did, if anybody who’s is thinking of doing a TED talk, I rehearsed it. Well I said it out loud to myself in every context, in the car, doing the dishes, going for a walk, but I also rehearsed it with live audiences just to see what happens if somebody coughs and you get thrown and you go, oh my God, I’ve lost my spot and you go blank. Or if somebody drops a glass, which happens you just keep going.

And nobody will know if you keep skip a sentence or paragraph, cause they haven’t read your script so they will not know. So you just keep going. And that was very helpful and it was a great experience in itself to make me feel more confident about it’s okay to claim your voice. So anybody thinking about it, I encourage you to do it.

Terri Connellan: Oh that’s fantastic. And that idea of owning your story and claiming your voice. And I think it’s the same in writing, but it’s probably another step, particularly if you are a writer to then as an introvert, which you are, I am, perhaps many people listening may well be also, you have to really work, I think to claim your story and to really share your voice is another step at it. And it takes like all these steps, hard work, hard inner work, learning the skills and being able to move through that process. So congratulations on that and thanks for sharing your learning here and also in that blog post again, we can pop that in the notes because I think there’s just so much learning from that experience.

Kerstin Pilz: Yes, there’s a lot to be learned and that’s how I prepared just reading lots and lots of blog posts, how other people had done this. Yeah.

Terri Connellan: That’s great to hear. So your memoir, you are currently writing is called Falling Apart Gracefully as we’ve discussed. So how are you finding the writing process yourself? That longer term, longer haul, writing process is quite different, isn’t it?

Kerstin Pilz: Yes. I knew what I was going in for, because I have done a PhD. And I had published as you know, is required when you are an academic. And so I knew it was going to be a long haul. However, I stalled because this is, of course not a research project. It’s not fiction, I’m not making up characters and give them funny lines. You know, this is actually about me and what really happened. And also of course you need to tell it as a story that is interesting, that has tension, that moves the reader forward, you know, is a page turner, that would be the ideal way to tell it, and I’m aiming to do that.

So I think I’m very good at teaching things. I’m often a very bad student of my own teaching, but one of the things I would say, and you know, this yourself is journaling is a wonderful practice for any writer. Maybe even just simple things like morning pages to train the writing muscle, to become more comfortable in your own voice to write faster and to lose that fear of the blank page, because you can just start. And I often do that when I’m struggling to get into a chapter, I might just journal and you know, maybe three pages and then halfway through, it’s like, ah, that’s where I start and you find it. So it’s a process and for a long time, I approached, perhaps like I would have approached the PhD: researching thinking, planning, scheming. But with my memoir, it doesn’t actually work that way for me. It’s really a process of discovering the thread of the story as you write.

And then once you understand how to tell that story, I’ve chosen the three act model. I’ve obviously read heaps of memoirs, but once you have found that structure, then you can make an outline and then you sit down and you say to yourself, I’m not writing my book today. I’m writing scene X. And if I have 20 minutes, I can still write a very rough draft of scene number 25. And then maybe in the evening after dinner might have time to polish it a bit further. And then the next day I have something that is more solid than if I hadn’t sat down to do that. So choose the little pockets of time you have. Choose them well. Use the Pomodoro technique, which I know you use d and trick yourself into being productive. What works for me – and I never thought this would be the case, is to have a very strict routine. I always was, you know, the rebel. Routine? That’s for boring people. Well, I’ve changed my mind on that too. And for example, one thing I do is I combine it with exercise. So like this morning I get up at 5:30 in the morning. I’m a morning person now, which is another surprise. I do my physical exercise cause that teaches me, like, I might struggle, I don’t know, running up the hill because I’m not that fit. But if I do it for 10 weeks, I get better. And that is a mirror to my writing. It’s the same thing. I might struggle to write the first draft, but if I keep doing it, I will finish. I will get better. So have a routine, have a system that works for you. And then just do it, focus on it.

Obviously I speak to a lot of aspiring writers and I hear it all the time: I would love to write a book, but I just can’t do it. I haven’t got the inspiration. I’m waiting to be inspired. Inspiration will not come. Like Dani Shapiro says, put yourself in the path of inspiration every day. Or like Dan Brown says, sit down and write every day. He writes even, I think on Christmas day, I think he takes one day off a year.

Terri Connellan: So much about mindset. It’s about practices. It’s about self-belief you know, believing you can do it better. But a lot of it is just that step by step, day by day, you know, that idea of just getting our butt into the chair and doing the work is a big part of it too. But all those things can come together, can’t they, to also self-sabotage, you know, when our minds play tricks, our inner critic tells us, what are we doing? We’ve got to have an income somewhere along the way through all the work that we do. But it’s a huge learning process, that whole journey of writing a longer haul piece. So congratulations.

Kerstin Pilz: Thank you. Well, I’m not where you are. I’m not there yet, but I liked the idea, what you just said is an evolution, because that’s what it is exactly. You grow as you write that thing and you get so much clarity. With a memoir, of course, you do want a little bit of distance from the story because you don’t want to make it a whinge or revenge story. And for me, this is now 10 years after the event. I have so much more clarity. And it’s no longer a story about my husband. It’s the story about my rebirth, how I reemerged from this situation. The other thing I will say about the process, something to maybe help your listeners, if they are on that path and wondering how to do it, I found it very helpful to also have a support group.

So don’t show your writing to your partner, your best friend. They’re not going to be your best critics because they’ll either feel uncomfortable to say something negative or they’ll just praise you because they love you. So have a group that is your peers, a writers’ group. I had a writers’ group that I ran for four years in Hoi An and then the borders closed and we kept going for another year via Zoom, but it became too complicated.

But now I have a small group, three of us. We meet once a week and we critique and read each other’s chapters. And since we started that I have made huge progress. So that is a really good thing as well to do.

Terri Connellan: Absolutely. And that’s one thing I’ve really learned from my journey too. We often think of writing as just us with a pen and paper or computer. But my light bulb moment was when I wrote my acknowledgements. And then there was just this cast of many, many people involved in the community of writing that book in many ways. So whether it’s feedback, support, just that ability to talk about what you’re going through, I think is so valuable.

Kerstin Pilz: Yes, exactly.

Terri Connellan: So shadow career. In my book, I talk about shadow career, and I know that you have also been running some workshops recently around the idea. And that is a concept talked about by Steven Pressfield in his book, Turning Pro. He uses examples like being the roadie when we actually want to be the musician or being the teacher of writing when we actually want to be the writer. So I know this concept resonated with you in recent times. Tell us more about your thoughts about the shadow career and how it might be playing out.

Kerstin Pilz: Well, exactly like you just said, do you want to be the writer, but become the writing teacher. And I think you and I actually connected initially by both reading Pressfield. I think the penny dropped like six years or whenever it was 2016, when I first started this idea of Write Your Journey. And I read Pressfield and the shadow career, and I thought, oh yes, I’ve been a university lecturer teaching literature and dissecting it and writing papers on different authors when I really wanted to write my own book.

And I had always taken the excuse, well, my English wasn’t good enough. It was great for writing academic stuff, because that can be a different way of writing, but I wasn’t yet confident enough to write in a more lyrical prosaic way. Although that was just an excuse. And so the shadow career, yes, it’s a form of, self-sabotage. What I’ve also realised in my case, for example, it’s an inheritance of blockages of trauma. Like my mother, and I say it in my TED talk, the biggest gripe in her life is that her parents, growing up in post-war, being born into Nazi Germany. And then afterwards, after the end of the war, they were too poor to send her to high school. So she has remained in this narrative that she is the dumb one in the family, the one unworthy of an education. And she didn’t have the tools or the ability to break out of that narrative. So the shadow career is, like you said the roadie or the roadie who drinks himself into alcoholism thinking I’m a musician, but really you’re not, so it is so easy to remain stuck in those shadow careers.

So then what I did is. I started Write Your Journey, which I thought was a clever idea. And it is however, it actually meant, I spent a lot of time setting up my own website, which I loved. I actually really enjoyed that experience of learning new skills in that way. And then I ended up teaching writing to others.

I think the penny finally dropped when I was reading your book again the day before your virtual book launch. And I thought there is somebody who came to my retreat. She’s finished her book, we’re launching her book, where’s my book? And she talks about the shadow career. And that’s when I thought, okay, that’s what I wrote to my community and I said the monthly Zoom writing sessions that I hold live, they will be on hold until I finished my book. And so the last one I held last weekend was on the topic of shadows and it was incredible. It was such a great topic to use because of course we all live with these shadows and we need the shadow. To be whole, we actually need the shadow. And if you’re writing fiction, your character needs a shadow to be interesting, but don’t remain stuck in the shadow career. Claim your own career.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. That’s fantastic. And it’s great that you were able to share your insights with your writing group too. And for the light bulbs, probably to go off for different people. Because you’re right, that’s again something I reflected on in writing my book that we need the shadow, but we need to make it more conscious.

Kerstin Pilz: Mm. Yes. That’s what Carl Jung said, making the shadow conscious. That’s the work.

Terri Connellan: Yeah. So we were chatting just before we came on live about how our themes and our stories are often very, very similar. My podcast’s called Create Your Story and you talk in your TED talk about being in charge of the stories we tell ourselves. So it’s obviously a strong theme for you. So I’m really interested for you to tell us how you’ve created your story over your lifetime.

Kerstin Pilz: So I think it comes back to that tagline I mentioned earlier, you are the author of your own life. So you know, I’m a high school dropout. I dropped out of high school when my English teacher in Germany said, you will never learn English. I said, right, I’m going to show you. Actually, I didn’t think that I went off and I worked in a hospice, of all places, at the age of not even eighteen. And in those days, it was the eighties, they didn’t have the training and work health safety that we have now. In Germany, this was, and so the things they made us do would be illegal these days, lifting bodies and so on. But it taught me so much and it also forced me to sit with dying people, and to be for the first time as an 18 year old in the presence of a dying person was extremely powerful. And it made me realise how precious life is, how it’s actually a unique opportunity because also a lot of the people in that old people’s home were very sad. You know, they had wasted their lives. Some of that has to do with historical circumstance, poverty, perhaps, but it was a much deeper teaching than high school would have given me at that point. And so I have stayed true to that dictum that I now have that you are the author of your life.

So I did eventually go back to high school because I knew an education would be important but I did it on my own terms. I actually worked in a restaurant. It was hard. I never went to any parties because I was always working on the weekends, but I was in charge. I was the one in charge. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that I was born very far away from the ocean and in a cold and gloomy place, not too far from the border with what used to be east Germany. And it was during the cold war, it was very gloomy, very gloomy. We were an occupied nation. We had American army forces around us. You’d hear them training every day, with the tanks and machine guns and that risk of cold war lingering, it really shapes your psyche in some ways.

So I work hard, saved a lot of money and I discovered Italy, sunshine and la bella vita, la dolce vita, so that’s when I realized you can, unlike my mother who has remained stuck, I was the one I never was allowed to go to high school. You can change your life at any moment. And so that’s what I’ve done. I’ve realized I can actually live in Italy. I lived in Italy for a while then I lived in Bali in the eighties before anybody did yoga there. And eventually I ended up in Australia and so what’s the question again, how I shaped my life?

Terri Connellan: It’s about how you created your story. And I think the way that you’re seeing that is reminding yourself constantly that you’re the author of your own life. You’ve also used the word self-directed, which again is a word I love too, that idea of, we have choices. We’ve talked about luck versus choice too. Luck plays a part in life, but sometimes we can overly put the emphasis on luck and talk about your lovely blog post that influenced me in Wholehearted. And I think we need to just focus on that hard inner work that we can do to make change.

Kerstin Pilz: Yes. And actually that, now that you mentioned that blog post again, that was really important to me to share that with the world. I’m really grateful that it resonated with you and others, of course, because often I get people saying, how lucky are you? You’re living in Vietnam. How lucky are you? You’re working from home. Yeah, well, I rent out my house on Airbnb, I often camp so that I can rent it out. Not everybody would want to do that. Not everybody would want to go to Vietnam and set up new and live on a small budget, but have the benefit of that self-directed life. So it wasn’t luck, it was hard work and determination and staying true to my values.

Terri Connellan: So in all of that, you’ve learned so much about wholehearted self-leadership. So you’ve read my book, you know some of the tips that I have recommended from my experiences. I’d love to hear about yours. What are your top tips and practices?

Kerstin Pilz: We share the personal journaling as a way of staying connected, of honing that inner compass and also of just unburdening yourself, saying the things that you’re afraid to say. Because that’s the other thing, where the fear is, go near the fear. And if you’re writing fiction, go near the fear, because that is where the energy is, you know, the same for a memoir. Tell us the things that you are most scared of. So confront your fears. Don’t bury them. Don’t try to outrun them. I tried that for a while, but that doesn’t work.

And other practices, mindfulness, of course. After I had my stints in various monasteries, I even received teachings from the Dalai Lama. Not just me, there were 300,000 other people. I did develop a regular meditation practice. I’m a little bit slack at the moment and when I do slacken up, I realize it. I just feel a little bit more disconnected from myself.

And also I feel less relaxed when things become stressful. And for me what’s really important is also to get enough sleep. Very important, not to be undervalued as a superpower. And well, I personally also like yoga because I feel it’s a mind body, it’s a holistic approach to life and to do your own wellbeing and to allow yourself to rest. To get out of that, I have to produce in order to be valuable to society. I need to show that I’m constantly busy, that I have to-do lists that are impossible to get through. No, it’s okay to rest. It’s okay not to be productive. Like Bronnie Ware in her book, The Top Five Regrets of the Dying says, what do people regret the most when they’re dying? Well, I didn’t spend enough time with my family. I wish I hadn’t worked so hard. Those are some of the things I’m sure the minute we stop this podcast, I’ll think of something else.

Terri Connellan: It’s great. Just to hear what’s front of mind for people and what comes to mind immediately. And I love those tips and practices that have served you well. So thank you so much for sharing about your life, your work with Write Your Journey and particularly your deep learning over time and the hard inner work that you’ve done through challenging circumstances.

Thank you for sharing them today and also through Quiet Writing which is much appreciated. I’ve gained great strengths from our connection, from your work and from going on retreat with you. So thank you for that. So if you can let people know Kerstin where they can find out more about you about your work online.

Kerstin Pilz: Yeah. And thank you Terri very much also for creating this community where actually I’ve met a lot of people online through you, and that’s wonderful in that community. So my website is WriteYourJourney.com. You can just contact me through the contact page if you want to get in touch with me. I run regular retreats. And one day, I might even have a podcast, but for now I also have a Facebook group where I post regular writing prompts and motivation articles I find and so on. And my aim going forward with my business is to actually, because my passion. You just have to stay with your passion. And I’ve realised my passion is memoir. I never thought that would be the case. But it’s a such a powerful tool because even if you’re not planning to write it as a book, sharing and writing your life story just bring so much order and clarity. And so I’m hoping in the new year when I have finished my book, you know, brought it to a point where I can back off a bit is to actually have a memoir writing group or a program or something like that. That’s sort of a long-term plan. So, and on Instagram, of course I love Instagram. I’m not that active at the moment because I get lost in social media as we all do. But since I live in a beautiful place or when I lived in Hoi An, I love taking photos. It’s another passion of mine. And so Instagram it’s @writeyourjourney.

Terri Connellan: Oh, thank you. And your photography is always so beautiful. It’s lovely to see all the amazing places where you’re living and writing from. It’s such a joy. So thank you so much. We’ll pop all those links in the show notes and thanks for chatting with us today.

Kerstin Pilz: Thank you very much, Terri. Really appreciate it.